Recently, I was called to jury duty. I ended up getting it postponed since I had things to do in the next 3 days. For those of you outside the US, the US has mandatory jury service for citizens and you generally get called for it at random. You only have to do it something like every 6 years but if you're called, you must go & nobody is exempt from it.
It seems a very desirable county in my city has a dark side: if you're called to jury duty you're told to allot at least 3 days of your life to do it at the whopping rate of $40 a day for a full 8 hour day. This is lower than both the state and federal minimum wage. There also seems to be no concern for economic hardship if you are self-employed & missing higher paying assignments means you could be in danger of not being able to pay your rent, utility bills, car payments, other necessary bills that not paying will cause your life to suffer in a very negative way (like being homeless, not having electricity or Internet access, not having a car in a locale where there's no viable public transit which means you'll eventually lose your job because you can't get there or do it, especially with no Internet, no telephone to call anyone or be reached at, no food, etc.).
When I did jury duty in a different county, I only had to be there for one day. It was a lot of waiting around, they called me for a case, excused me then I got to go home. No, in this "desirable" county there's a ballot system where if you are rejected for one case, you have to give your ballot back and they may draw your number AGAIN with seemingly no end in sight. I opted for an adjournment since I had planned assignments and didn't care to lose $500+ in not doing those assignments. I figure with prior planning, I can just clear my schedule and let people know I'm free the day before if things don't take as long as the clerks involved with jury duty tell you they will. The clerk where I was said "If you can't commit the whole day to the next 3 days, you should leave right now and get a postponement." I opted for a time where I might get fewer assignments & hopefully will face less stress.
One big thing about jury duty is you'd better bring something to do. Ideally you'll want something not involving electricity or technology like books or writing material. I'd thought of doing writing while I was in jury duty as well as doing legal CLEs; hey, if you have time to kill you may as well do legal CLEs (which I have never found exciting or interesting; maybe it's because most of the programs I've done had nothing to do with entertainment law & few speakers have an engaging, passionate style that makes you stand up and take notice). From my own conversations with lawyers, many aren't enthused with the whole CLE thing and view it more as taking medicine than learning useful things about their particular practice area. Saving the outlines and materials is always a good thing so you have those resources for later if the subject matter comes up but most lawyers are so freaking busy they don't have time to watch and pay full attention to this stuff. The CLE provider probably also factors in here since some offer more interesting courses than others. One lawyer I've heard about bills himself as a "comedian of law" & that just builds up expectations of fun in my mind. I want to see if this guy lives up to the hype sometime. Another thing about CLE courses is that many are pricey. But it's a requirement and if you HAVE to be someplace anyway, that's making productive use of your time. I've also watched some courses while taking Amtrak to see my family (a train ride lasting at least 10 hours, usually longer when there are delays). This aspect you can plan for.
I guess if you're also inclined, you could use jury duty as a pickup scene & get to know hot prospective jurors who also want to leave & can think of better things they could be doing. Why not, right? That's better than harassing women on Facebook or LinkedIn under the guise of business networking. There were some hotties when I went; maybe there will be more next time & some will have the balls to approach me. I always like to see about prospective networking as well so if that can happen, what the hey? Another productive use of time.
But let's see: Why would you want me to be on your jury when my presence is NOT being compensated by my employer (as I'm self-employed) & I'm worrying about the loss of income from being there? What type of objectivity or any sense of fairness are you going to get from a juror who resents the state stealing their income by forcing them to work for below city, state and federal minimum wage? Attorneys used to be exempt from jury duty by virtue of being attorneys. This apparently is no longer the case yet attorneys make significantly more money, know how trials work and could easily sway non-attorneys on that jury to agree with them if they have some bias against the accused or the prosecution. I was hoping maybe me knowing a lot of attorneys in my city could get me kicked out since you can't be on the jury of a lawyer you know personally (the other side would assume you're going to side with your friend's client or if it's an enemy, your enemy will presume you're going to nail their client). Solo practitioners are being taken away from clients & not getting compensated by anybody else so why shouldn't they be exempt? Same for appearance attorneys like yours truly. Entire practices could crumble from such requirements. Isn't that screwing over other people who might have cases going to jury trials?
Honestly, though I think you'd get fewer people objecting if they were paid at least minimum wage for the city, state or country. If someone isn't being compensated by an employer, they would not have to worry they'd lose their home or ability to work due to jury service. Minimum wage at least would make people feel less resentful about serving & you wouldn't have people doing what Pauly Shore's character did in "Jury Duty" (see that movie if you haven't; I was so happy one of my Facebook friends actually knew that movie when I mentioned it since it's somewhat obscure and many people don't get my obscure references). Money for lunch would also be nice. Weirdly, I'm not even sure what's in the area of the courthouse where I have to serve. I know it for the county I served in before.
I've heard some great lines to use to get out of jury duty as well that I could consider but for now, these are my ideas for why people don't like doing it and how we could fix that.
Showing posts with label attorneys. Show all posts
Showing posts with label attorneys. Show all posts
Sunday, September 15, 2019
Sunday, April 17, 2016
Gangstas & Lawyers: Is The Gulf Between Them REALLY That Wide?
I know, I know. You're thinking "gangsta" and think people like Eminem or Ice-T or Dr. Dre or Tupac or other gangsta rappers who sold drugs, killed people, became pimps and other varied "gangsta" stuff. You're thinking "You'd want a guy like Eminem as an attorney?" If he were a criminal defense attorney & sober, yes you would.
The jailhouse lawyer, the guy (or woman) who's been incarcerated and has to learn about how to get himself out b/c (s)he can't afford his own attorney is probably the most bad ass & will put your Harvard Law grad to shame. That guy (or woman) knows about the real life implications of the criminal system, has seen the legal trickery played first hand AND fought a fight based on his/her personal interest. Your average sane attorney that I've encountered has some respect for the jailhouse lawyers since they had to learn the law without professors lecturing them through the Socratic Method. They had to self-teach; most of us can't even self study & pass the bar exam.
But let's go beyond criminal law. What skills do you need to be a good & powerful gangsta? You have to be ballsy, take risks, show respect for the leader/elder members/hierarchy in place, be somewhat blind to public opinion, know how to talk your way out of trouble and who you have to do favors for in order to keep yourself and your operations from being busted by the cops or getting shot up and such. You also don't start using your own stash or putting yourself in anything but a clear direction since you'd best be sharp at all times. Probably also helps you make sure you're not getting ripped off by a trusted associate or harmed while you're out of it; bad stuff always happens if you start taking the drugs you're selling or you get high and think it's a good idea to step out of line in whatever fashion.
Doesn't that sound an awful lot like the job of a litigation attorney, particularly a trial attorney? You have to show respect for the judge/court referee and court rules, not give a damn what anyone thinks of you as you present an argument for a client, finagle the law in the best way you can for that client and make the client happy so you don't get reported for ethics violations or sued or even murdered if your client doesn't like how you handled the case ("Cape Fear," anyone?).
As I see it, the only difference between a gangsta and an attorney is that the attorney knows the law & has a position of grudging respect with law enforcement. People think both have lots of money, I'd imagine there's a lot of stress in leading a criminal enterprise since you have to worry about people killing you or getting arrested. The stakes are a bit higher than they are for most attorneys (unless maybe you're Saul Goodman).
Most gangstas also didn't come from privilege or have silver spoons in their mouths at birth. They had to be smart and strategic to get where they were, did they not? They acted to survive. Someone who's got that sense of resourcefulness and pluck ought to be practicing law & advocating since they've been advocating for themselves and took a path lots of people wouldn't. Plus, they actually know what the struggle is like. If you didn't come from money & you were talking to someone who'd been like our well known gangsta rappers, you'd feel way more comfortable and like they understood your pain. It's a psychological fact that we are more comfortable with people who are more like us. The person who's not from money would be less likely to feel an attorney who also came from a poor background was going to patronize them vs. the attorney with a Gucci handbag and wearing some business suit worth as much as their yearly income. I think the former gangbanger or jailhouse lawyer is going to get a lot more information than the trust fund baby.
I was thinking "Now if you showed some of these really enterprising criminals prior to their life of crime that they could be applying their smarts & street savvy in a field where they'd have less direct threat of life and could still apply some of the gang lifestyle, how many might just become Saul Goodmans or very clever trial attorneys?" This is a special breed I'm talking about, the type who has business savvy & is merely there to make a buck vs. getting addicted to drugs, being a perma-lackey, or doing other stupid shit to detract from the business of dollars (whatever they do has a plan & a strategy behind it; it's not murder for murder's sake). These would be the people who look down on the lazy, short sighted types; I think ambitious people exist in all classes of society just like lazy fuckers exist in all classes of society. All races, all countries, I'm sure you will find the ambitious & business oriented types as well as the layabouts who wouldn't last a second running their own businesses.
Figuring out the difference is a skill but there's a difference & it is real. Sadly, gangs are probably more loyal to their members than many attorneys are to other attorneys. I was never in one so I can't say but I can tell you what I've seen and heard about the legal profession and what it's like to be a lawyer in it.
The jailhouse lawyer, the guy (or woman) who's been incarcerated and has to learn about how to get himself out b/c (s)he can't afford his own attorney is probably the most bad ass & will put your Harvard Law grad to shame. That guy (or woman) knows about the real life implications of the criminal system, has seen the legal trickery played first hand AND fought a fight based on his/her personal interest. Your average sane attorney that I've encountered has some respect for the jailhouse lawyers since they had to learn the law without professors lecturing them through the Socratic Method. They had to self-teach; most of us can't even self study & pass the bar exam.
But let's go beyond criminal law. What skills do you need to be a good & powerful gangsta? You have to be ballsy, take risks, show respect for the leader/elder members/hierarchy in place, be somewhat blind to public opinion, know how to talk your way out of trouble and who you have to do favors for in order to keep yourself and your operations from being busted by the cops or getting shot up and such. You also don't start using your own stash or putting yourself in anything but a clear direction since you'd best be sharp at all times. Probably also helps you make sure you're not getting ripped off by a trusted associate or harmed while you're out of it; bad stuff always happens if you start taking the drugs you're selling or you get high and think it's a good idea to step out of line in whatever fashion.
Doesn't that sound an awful lot like the job of a litigation attorney, particularly a trial attorney? You have to show respect for the judge/court referee and court rules, not give a damn what anyone thinks of you as you present an argument for a client, finagle the law in the best way you can for that client and make the client happy so you don't get reported for ethics violations or sued or even murdered if your client doesn't like how you handled the case ("Cape Fear," anyone?).
As I see it, the only difference between a gangsta and an attorney is that the attorney knows the law & has a position of grudging respect with law enforcement. People think both have lots of money, I'd imagine there's a lot of stress in leading a criminal enterprise since you have to worry about people killing you or getting arrested. The stakes are a bit higher than they are for most attorneys (unless maybe you're Saul Goodman).
Most gangstas also didn't come from privilege or have silver spoons in their mouths at birth. They had to be smart and strategic to get where they were, did they not? They acted to survive. Someone who's got that sense of resourcefulness and pluck ought to be practicing law & advocating since they've been advocating for themselves and took a path lots of people wouldn't. Plus, they actually know what the struggle is like. If you didn't come from money & you were talking to someone who'd been like our well known gangsta rappers, you'd feel way more comfortable and like they understood your pain. It's a psychological fact that we are more comfortable with people who are more like us. The person who's not from money would be less likely to feel an attorney who also came from a poor background was going to patronize them vs. the attorney with a Gucci handbag and wearing some business suit worth as much as their yearly income. I think the former gangbanger or jailhouse lawyer is going to get a lot more information than the trust fund baby.
I was thinking "Now if you showed some of these really enterprising criminals prior to their life of crime that they could be applying their smarts & street savvy in a field where they'd have less direct threat of life and could still apply some of the gang lifestyle, how many might just become Saul Goodmans or very clever trial attorneys?" This is a special breed I'm talking about, the type who has business savvy & is merely there to make a buck vs. getting addicted to drugs, being a perma-lackey, or doing other stupid shit to detract from the business of dollars (whatever they do has a plan & a strategy behind it; it's not murder for murder's sake). These would be the people who look down on the lazy, short sighted types; I think ambitious people exist in all classes of society just like lazy fuckers exist in all classes of society. All races, all countries, I'm sure you will find the ambitious & business oriented types as well as the layabouts who wouldn't last a second running their own businesses.
Figuring out the difference is a skill but there's a difference & it is real. Sadly, gangs are probably more loyal to their members than many attorneys are to other attorneys. I was never in one so I can't say but I can tell you what I've seen and heard about the legal profession and what it's like to be a lawyer in it.
Monday, March 2, 2015
Applying for Public Assistance: A Lawyer's Journey
At some point in a messy divorce where your ex has stolen all the marital assets & decided to toss you out like garbage, you reach a point of last resort. You realize that you're going to have to do certain things to take care of yourself. One of those things you may choose to do is apply for public assistance i.e. welfare. I choose to call it public assistance since I am not a victim, do not seek to be on anyone's dime for the rest of my life & if you call me lazy, I'll punch your pampered little face so hard you'll never look normal again.
As you read this, think about your assumptions concerning public assistance & welfare. Now put those aside & look at reality.
Do you think a lawyer would never be put in this position? I suggest you take your head out of your ass & join us in the real world where the legal employment market is known for being "terrible" by those in the know i.e. people doing the actual job hunting and looking at ads. The ones who weren't born to money or bought their way into a high class rank or T1 law school.
My reasons for applying were numerous & one of them included actual need. The application process is not a bad thing. They put me in their Back 2 Work program & I even said that was fine since it's not that I don't want to work. Read that statement again if you are one of my nosy haters: I have no issue at all with working itself.
What I have an issue with is doing work that makes me feel degraded, demeaned, utilizes none of my actual skills & is simply a waste of my time due to salary, intelligence, workplace atmosphere, that type of thing. Would YOU do work fitting that category? If so, you are a damn idiot.
I am also not a person who responds to being treated like a 6 year old or like some victim you get to terrorize. This is true for just about everyone but doubly so if you're dealing with an intelligent person. In about 2 seconds of meeting me, everyone always tells me I'm smart and pretty.
When I started out, I figured the process would be degrading and humiliating. I expected obscene bureaucracy, rudness at every corner, no rational human beings for miles, nannying on a regular basis, that kind of thing.
The applying process itself & the Back 2 Work program process wasn't bad in my opinion. Yes, you should bring something to do & ideally either have something not based on power like a smartphone or an external charger so if your phone dies, you can charge it without needing a working outlet. I've spent much of my time writing and doing a word search puzzle book. Writing is a good catharsis for me but I need a huge one today.
The people I've dealt with at the Back 2 Work center get it. They get that some of us are smart, that aspects of the program aren't addressing our needs & we aren't benefited by customer service training or food handling certifications. I have 7 years of retail from high school & college. I am a partner in a business. I could teach a class on customer service skills; I am the last person who needs training in that.
I weigh 105 pounds & can lift about 20 without killing myself. Not the person you ask to do a heavy lifting job.
I am not mechanically inclined, am terrified of most insects, have sensitivity to strong odors & will likely throw up if I'm around something rank, have zero maintenance/manual labor experience (it's beneath my first jobs even off the books) and am probably the last person who should be doing that type of work. Not to mention I was told outright by someone who had me doing such tasks that I "am not a housekeeper."
Who would want to supervise someone who is so incompetent, ill equipped and just disinterested in such tasks? In what universe would putting someone like that in such a job be a good idea for anyone involved?
I'd heard clerical was a possibility which is not something I'd object to doing for public assistance benefits but I AM a licensed attorney.
NY state recently instituted a 50 hour pro bono requirement for all new attorneys. There's been all this talk about the accessibility gap due to attorney fees vs. potential clients. AND there's an overage of attorneys.
So if an attorney is on public assistance & has to work in order to receive them as required by the state, why in the Hell is that attorney NOT being assigned to work as an attorney in the court house or for a legal aid organization or for some private legal services group like the bar associations or some other program? Why are taxpayer funds being spent toward an attorney, licensed by the very same state instituting this work requirement, picking up garbage, doing maintenance tasks or even doing a clerical position having zero to do with that attorney's license to practice?
I know we don't have a surplus of public interest attorneys; you hear NOTHING about public interest work except how there are shortages & these organizations would love the help but don't have the salary to pay people.
Why is the state not doing something about this immediately? Let me also note some of these public interest jobs aren't exactly glamorous or things many attorneys really want to do. I'd actually not mind doing it since I come from a lower income world & now that I'm doing this experience, will be a far better public interest attorney than anyone else since I'll have actually LIVED it + could give someone practical tips about the process that most attorneys won't have a clue about. I also feel better helping others & it will give me perspective about my own troubles.
Who the hell came up with this gross misallocation of resources or thinks it's a good idea? Not a single person I have spoken to about this at the job center or at HRA thought it made sense. Not a single person who's actually listened when I presented this said "Yeah, we should waste everyone's time and resources in this way."
Who are these higher ups, these changemakers I should talk to about this? I want to know. The Task Force to Expand Access to Civil Legal Services hasn't bothered contacting me so I don't think they really give a shit about helping the underserved or putting legal service providers in touch with them.
The bar association presidents I have contacted in Manhattan do not give a shit about attorneys who can't afford their licensing fees or people being on public assistance. There is no legal "community" at all in my eyes & you have to wonder why any attorney would waste their time paying dues to an organization that will invest in fancy buildings and expensive parties but won't even create a fund for those attorneys down on their luck for whatever reason: drug/alcohol addiction, health concerns or simply marrying a total asshole who ripped the rug out from under you during a very hard time in your life.
That, if you have a shred of reading comprehension or common sense, should fucking explain in no uncertain terms why I feel there is ZERO legal community & think it's a total crock to hear anyone use that phrase.
Meanwhile, the people I have dealt with in this time have been kind and sympathetic to my situation vs. being the type of asshole trying to make you feel worse or throw you under the bus. I have also talked to people at this job center to find that apparently I am not the only person being underserved here or getting assigned to do tasks she has no aptitude, experience or interest in.
However, I might be the only person with enough bees in her bonnet and anger coursing through her to go make a huge public stink & attack the issue with the same gusto and verve that I used in dealing with other seemingly impossible fights other people wouldn't have taken on. I might be the only lady with a track record of fighting arbitrary, unfair policies imposing what I consider undue harm unto me. People hearing about that history never question why I'm an attorney.
As I've said before, I consider prostitution and stripping less degrading for me than doing manual labor. At least there I'd make real money & use some actual skills I have vs. doing something I not only hate with every fiber of my being but am not even good at.
If I joined the military, I wouldn't be doing front line infantry grunt work. They'd put me in JAG. The military knows that people aren't going to give their all or bother with something they are ill-suited for or think is beneath them. Why doesn't NY state or any other place with such ridiculousness get that?
Do I think manual labor is beneath me? Yes, I do. Ask any attorney whether they'd give up their legal job to work as a housekeeper or do custodial work for strangers at the average rate of pay for those jobs. I'm pretty sure zero would do that.
Ask any retail sales associate if they'd give up their retail job to work as a housekeeper or do custodial work for strangers at the average rate of pay for those jobs. I'm sure you'd get the same answer.
Just for the record, not MY fault or MY actions that caused all this. Look to my deadbeat soon to be ex-husband if you want to find fault here. If you think I planned or caused this shit, then you are a pampered, spoiled, piece of garbage who's never lived & deserves whatever karma feeds to them. I want you to suffer on the level of Job if you dare to assign blame to me or judge me in any fashion over what I have to do in order to survive and not let my shitty ex-husband or his relatives take everything I worked for away from me. I may not be religious but I do know my Baptist faith, thank you very much.
As you read this, think about your assumptions concerning public assistance & welfare. Now put those aside & look at reality.
Do you think a lawyer would never be put in this position? I suggest you take your head out of your ass & join us in the real world where the legal employment market is known for being "terrible" by those in the know i.e. people doing the actual job hunting and looking at ads. The ones who weren't born to money or bought their way into a high class rank or T1 law school.
My reasons for applying were numerous & one of them included actual need. The application process is not a bad thing. They put me in their Back 2 Work program & I even said that was fine since it's not that I don't want to work. Read that statement again if you are one of my nosy haters: I have no issue at all with working itself.
What I have an issue with is doing work that makes me feel degraded, demeaned, utilizes none of my actual skills & is simply a waste of my time due to salary, intelligence, workplace atmosphere, that type of thing. Would YOU do work fitting that category? If so, you are a damn idiot.
I am also not a person who responds to being treated like a 6 year old or like some victim you get to terrorize. This is true for just about everyone but doubly so if you're dealing with an intelligent person. In about 2 seconds of meeting me, everyone always tells me I'm smart and pretty.
When I started out, I figured the process would be degrading and humiliating. I expected obscene bureaucracy, rudness at every corner, no rational human beings for miles, nannying on a regular basis, that kind of thing.
The applying process itself & the Back 2 Work program process wasn't bad in my opinion. Yes, you should bring something to do & ideally either have something not based on power like a smartphone or an external charger so if your phone dies, you can charge it without needing a working outlet. I've spent much of my time writing and doing a word search puzzle book. Writing is a good catharsis for me but I need a huge one today.
The people I've dealt with at the Back 2 Work center get it. They get that some of us are smart, that aspects of the program aren't addressing our needs & we aren't benefited by customer service training or food handling certifications. I have 7 years of retail from high school & college. I am a partner in a business. I could teach a class on customer service skills; I am the last person who needs training in that.
I weigh 105 pounds & can lift about 20 without killing myself. Not the person you ask to do a heavy lifting job.
I am not mechanically inclined, am terrified of most insects, have sensitivity to strong odors & will likely throw up if I'm around something rank, have zero maintenance/manual labor experience (it's beneath my first jobs even off the books) and am probably the last person who should be doing that type of work. Not to mention I was told outright by someone who had me doing such tasks that I "am not a housekeeper."
Who would want to supervise someone who is so incompetent, ill equipped and just disinterested in such tasks? In what universe would putting someone like that in such a job be a good idea for anyone involved?
I'd heard clerical was a possibility which is not something I'd object to doing for public assistance benefits but I AM a licensed attorney.
NY state recently instituted a 50 hour pro bono requirement for all new attorneys. There's been all this talk about the accessibility gap due to attorney fees vs. potential clients. AND there's an overage of attorneys.
So if an attorney is on public assistance & has to work in order to receive them as required by the state, why in the Hell is that attorney NOT being assigned to work as an attorney in the court house or for a legal aid organization or for some private legal services group like the bar associations or some other program? Why are taxpayer funds being spent toward an attorney, licensed by the very same state instituting this work requirement, picking up garbage, doing maintenance tasks or even doing a clerical position having zero to do with that attorney's license to practice?
I know we don't have a surplus of public interest attorneys; you hear NOTHING about public interest work except how there are shortages & these organizations would love the help but don't have the salary to pay people.
Why is the state not doing something about this immediately? Let me also note some of these public interest jobs aren't exactly glamorous or things many attorneys really want to do. I'd actually not mind doing it since I come from a lower income world & now that I'm doing this experience, will be a far better public interest attorney than anyone else since I'll have actually LIVED it + could give someone practical tips about the process that most attorneys won't have a clue about. I also feel better helping others & it will give me perspective about my own troubles.
Who the hell came up with this gross misallocation of resources or thinks it's a good idea? Not a single person I have spoken to about this at the job center or at HRA thought it made sense. Not a single person who's actually listened when I presented this said "Yeah, we should waste everyone's time and resources in this way."
Who are these higher ups, these changemakers I should talk to about this? I want to know. The Task Force to Expand Access to Civil Legal Services hasn't bothered contacting me so I don't think they really give a shit about helping the underserved or putting legal service providers in touch with them.
The bar association presidents I have contacted in Manhattan do not give a shit about attorneys who can't afford their licensing fees or people being on public assistance. There is no legal "community" at all in my eyes & you have to wonder why any attorney would waste their time paying dues to an organization that will invest in fancy buildings and expensive parties but won't even create a fund for those attorneys down on their luck for whatever reason: drug/alcohol addiction, health concerns or simply marrying a total asshole who ripped the rug out from under you during a very hard time in your life.
That, if you have a shred of reading comprehension or common sense, should fucking explain in no uncertain terms why I feel there is ZERO legal community & think it's a total crock to hear anyone use that phrase.
Meanwhile, the people I have dealt with in this time have been kind and sympathetic to my situation vs. being the type of asshole trying to make you feel worse or throw you under the bus. I have also talked to people at this job center to find that apparently I am not the only person being underserved here or getting assigned to do tasks she has no aptitude, experience or interest in.
However, I might be the only person with enough bees in her bonnet and anger coursing through her to go make a huge public stink & attack the issue with the same gusto and verve that I used in dealing with other seemingly impossible fights other people wouldn't have taken on. I might be the only lady with a track record of fighting arbitrary, unfair policies imposing what I consider undue harm unto me. People hearing about that history never question why I'm an attorney.
As I've said before, I consider prostitution and stripping less degrading for me than doing manual labor. At least there I'd make real money & use some actual skills I have vs. doing something I not only hate with every fiber of my being but am not even good at.
If I joined the military, I wouldn't be doing front line infantry grunt work. They'd put me in JAG. The military knows that people aren't going to give their all or bother with something they are ill-suited for or think is beneath them. Why doesn't NY state or any other place with such ridiculousness get that?
Do I think manual labor is beneath me? Yes, I do. Ask any attorney whether they'd give up their legal job to work as a housekeeper or do custodial work for strangers at the average rate of pay for those jobs. I'm pretty sure zero would do that.
Ask any retail sales associate if they'd give up their retail job to work as a housekeeper or do custodial work for strangers at the average rate of pay for those jobs. I'm sure you'd get the same answer.
Just for the record, not MY fault or MY actions that caused all this. Look to my deadbeat soon to be ex-husband if you want to find fault here. If you think I planned or caused this shit, then you are a pampered, spoiled, piece of garbage who's never lived & deserves whatever karma feeds to them. I want you to suffer on the level of Job if you dare to assign blame to me or judge me in any fashion over what I have to do in order to survive and not let my shitty ex-husband or his relatives take everything I worked for away from me. I may not be religious but I do know my Baptist faith, thank you very much.
Sunday, May 13, 2012
Turning Lawyer Applicants Into Indentured Servants & A Serious Lesson in Business Etiquette
So, if you've done your homework before reading this blog you know that I have 2 different core audiences in the professional world: attorneys & entertainment professionals. This one's going to have something for both (though this is still ultimately the place where I can be myself; if you're fortunate enough to do this, you really should).
First off, NY state is soon to be the very first state in the US to require all new attorneys to undergo 50 hours of pro bono work before being admitted to the bar & provide certification of this to the bar examiners. This article is a good overview on the issue & addresses some things.
However, I feel the need to comment since I don't think it goes far enough & doesn't cover things I've said:
1. You may know I'm doing my first stint of Monday Night Law this year. If you read one of my earlier entries, you read about a conversation I overheard about someone being turned down for pro bono work she actually wanted to do & cared about b/c the organization only wanted BigLaw attorneys trying to meet their pro bono requirement.
Now what about these aspiring lawyers? They're not going to have malpractice insurance to cover them. If these organizations are so strapped for cash, they can't cover experienced attorneys volunteering then how are they going to cover these new folks?
2. Why should new attorneys get to be involved in programs to "get experience" when there are tons of unemployed attorneys who could use it? What about the attorneys who actually WANT to be there getting the experience & feeling good about doing it? Don't they count?
3. Let's expand on that that whole "reluctant volunteer" issue: many of these volunteer projects won't take new attorneys. Monday Night Law doesn't take attorneys admitted less than 2 years. Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts won't take you unless you've been a lawyer for 7 years (I'm heading into my 5th year, even though I've been doing far more in this business than their majority BigLaw volunteers probably have; reading Yelp reviews of them also makes me adamant about never recommending anyone I know there). Presumably, you want to take on pro bono work that might have relevance to what you want to do, right? Or maybe you'd like to do something you'd actually, oh I don't know, ENJOY?
What if there's no opportunity for that? Then what? Are we now subjecting people who can't afford legal counsel to bitter, miserable law students/graduates who are only there to get this pro bono requirement met & could care less about their problems or them as people? The requirement doesn't say "50 hours of pro bono work where you built rapport with clients" or "50 hours of pro bono work where you helped clients w/their matters." It just says "50 hours of pro bono work." Not a word about the quality of it.
I would hope that the students commenting on this article are right about people caring about using their schooling to help others but I can't help but wonder about the elitist types who don't want to be there, are miserable & will take it out on any organization they work with as well as any clients walking in the door. You know there are some.
I personally CHOSE what I did & don't regret it. Working at my school's legal clinic proved to me that I wasn't really cut out for the politics & craziness of a law firm. The helping people aspect was great (and that makes a lawyer feel better since if you're not in charge or a veteran lawyer, you're often made to feel useless, incompetent & like you've got a permanent case of two left feet or foot in mouth disease). The life lessons & war stories were great truths I use to this day. However, the stories I heard about law firms & the time I was yelled at by one of our professors in the second phase of my work there were enough for me to say "Nope, not happening for me."
There are some projects I would have no interest or desire in doing. Helping someone convicted of many sorts of crimes is one (rape, animal abuse, neglecting children, hate crimes, etc.). Anything dealing with illegal immigrants is another. I have some very personal beliefs on these subjects that would make representation by me not only ineffective but verboten under ethics rules (attorneys can't take cases where they will not be able to provide zealous advocacy or effective counsel due to personal biases, religious beliefs, etc.). If you have to subject someone to a more rigorous screening process than you would for something where you don't have personal biases, then you can't effectively counsel him/her.
These are some of the individuals lawyers come in contact with & the people society doesn't like or approve of do need legal counsel. However, I know there are certain cases I can't take & certain projects I wouldn't be a fit for. I'm sure there are attorneys who wouldn't be able to deal with some of the matters I have but that's why there's a little something for everyone. At least, when you're licensed.
4. Some schools apparently have some very competitive clinic & internship/externship programs. Fortunately, I didn't attend such a law school but I've read about places where if you aren't on law review or top of the class you won't get into any of the law school programs. If you're in that boat, then what do you do? Again, there's that problem of not getting the opportunity you want & being forced into something where you & everyone around you will be miserable.
I have to wonder if this is a "do good" way to project yet more elitism into NY bar admissions. No one's going to say "Oh, it's a bad idea to require lawyers to help the less fortunate," but if you're dealing with a lower ranked student at one of these schools with a competitive clinic/internship/externship program who then has no ability to meet the requirement (presuming the outside organizations also try instituting grade requirements, which isn't uncommon at some places & especially considering nearly all the decision makers in the legal field view GPA/class rank as the only way to determine one's value as a human being), you've just shut out the attorneys who are ranked lower in the class. You see where I might get that notion & why it could raise hackles?
5. Then, to get away from the issues I took with this requirement was the point brought up by many about the whole notion of indentured servitude of lawyers. In case you haven't heard, the legal job market sucks for new grads. Even BigLaw isn't taking all the top GPA/law review members & starting a business without money, contacts, etc. is extremely hard. Some of us are good hustlers. Some of us are great at networking. Some of us can get breaks by doing this stuff.
However, you can be a good networker & still have problems in this economy. You can't MAKE someone give you a job or an opportunity. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. Plain & simple.
So I do think the people pointing out this being indentured servitude that the folk imposing this aren't going to have to do personally do make a good point. It does seem like you shouldn't outsource your own pro bono duties or even duties to help society/your fellow man in general to the attorney applicants, who really have no say in the matter & can't object.
In sum, I think it's a noble idea but misguided. You can't really force anyone to be a good citizen. It's either there or it isn't. Kind of like what my law school Ethics professor said in class. He said he couldn't instill Ethics into us as 20 somethings & either we had ethics or we didn't. Same goes for this. You've either got a sense of altruism & care about helping people or you don't. I don't think this requirement is going to make a selfish, elitist scumbag become Mother Teresa all of a sudden.
Plus, the people imposing this requirement ignore the issue of classism among the poor. Those people will know in a second if some aspiring NY bar applicant is being patronizing or just there to collect hours vs. really caring about their issue, empathetic to that client & "gets" it. It is a different world & if you don't brief people on it, they will give off a terrible impression to the client + may even discourage that client from ever seeking out a lawyer again. We know not everyone involved in pro bono projects cares about the work or the people coming for help.
So, that's a special lawyer issue that is definitely important to the community at large & I'd love to know what non-lawyers think about it, especially those who'd likely have to go to these organizations to get legal representation. I wonder if the Chief Justice is taking statements from those people directly; if not, he should consider them.
Now, we're going to look at business etiquette. Consider the following scenario:
You have an e-mail account that is not available to the general public. The only acceptable way someone would get the address is by A) getting your business card or headshot/resume (most likely from you), B) being a member of a bar association or networking group you belong to i.e. an attorney or entertainment professional, C) you initiating contact with the person.
I say "acceptable" to mean a method where it was okay for the person to reach out to you. Those who have this e-mail also know not to pass your information along without asking you first. The majority of your contacts are attorneys, entertainment professionals working behind the scenes or people you've told not to spread your info around without asking.
Attorneys & entertainment professionals generally don't share your info without asking since they get hassled enough by strangers & if they share your info without asking, they know you could (and probably would) do it right back to them. If they do it to lots of people, they will effectively get blackballed. Everyone knows this.
Another fact about this e-mail account: your full name is not associated with it. That means if you sent an e-mail to someone using it, they would not get your name unless you put it in there. You're extremely conscientious & paranoid about giving out your name to strangers since you come up first in a Google search. So, this account is one of those insider things.
Rule #1: Do NOT use a "secret" e-mail, phone number, fax number, screen name or social media account to contact a stranger. Assume a 98% chance that you will piss off that stranger. This is why getting lists of contacts for the entertainment industry doesn't really work if you don't have a personal friend/contact of that stranger that will vouch for you.
The same goes for lawyers who don't have law firms. Don't contact lawyer/film execs through a secret means. Secret means you wouldn't find it in an online search & have no one to vouch for you.
Rule #2: If you spam someone, be prepared to tell the person how you got that secret means of communication, apologize & take what's coming to you. You ARE in the wrong. Make no mistake about it.
Rule #3: If you're going to send your newsletters/updates/impersonal correspondence to a stranger, be prepared to accept any such correspondence that stranger may send. This includes information about fundraising campaigns for films, newsletters & any other business correspondence. If you want someone to care about YOUR company/updates/life, you'll have to do the same for your recipients. This is life.
Rule #4: If the stranger reaches out to you about networking & says you may be a useful contact (especially where that strangers is someone who could hire your clients), you seize that opportunity to be friendly. If that person was someone you chose to target with your materials, any rational person would conclude that you are open to networking with said person. After all, why waste your time with people you don't see an opportunity in dealing with?
Rule #5: Follow up with people who could hire your clients or otherwise help your business. To only look at the present time & not the long term future is stupid. For those in the entertainment field: not networking with entertainment lawyers is stupid, presumptuous & will screw you sooner or later.
Most entertainment folk know better than to snub lawyers; even your newest actors tend to be at least polite to entertainment law attorneys. As one person told me once, we serve a useful & important function. Don't you fucking forget it; if you're going to do anything professionally in entertainment, you will need us. It's just a matter of time. Find someone who makes a living in the entertainment field who doesn't have a lawyer or an agent/manager who is a licensed attorney. I dare you.
And as you don't piss off entertainment lawyers in general, you don't piss off someone who knows a lot of attorneys & has extensive contacts in entertainment law. Guess who most of my lawyer contacts are? Entertainment law attorneys. Common interests, people.
I also look out for my friends & if I hear they're going to be working with someone I know is a jerk, I'll be saying something.
Back to the scenario:
You get a newsletter from a total stranger in this "secret" e-mail account. It contains your full name in the Recipient line. You don't know the name in any context. This isn't a LinkedIn contact, a member of a LinkedIn group, a business contact, a lawyer or someone who'd have a legitimate reason to have your e-mail. Nor did this person acknowledge that they're sending you this thing & don't know you.
In doing your homework, you learn this person could be a good contact & might be able to answer a simple informational question. Sort of a cross between informational interview & "What's it like to do X?" inquiry. You get a response by phone then send your info so the person can do their research on you.
You hear nothing. Then, you take an opportunity to meet this spammer/potentially useful contact in person. Figuring maybe this person's busy, you're not too phased with a lack of response to your e-mail. After all, you know people in this stranger's line of work tend to be busy.
When you hear this person speak, you get an impression of competence & the person does have some sense of humor.
However, you ask this person directly about what you wrote in e-mail & guess what the stranger does? The stranger attempts to recruit you for one on one time & charge you money for it.
Remember, this person reached out to YOU & had no way of having your private e-mail account. You asked everyone who had that personal e-mail that may have dealt with this stranger & no one knew this person. Presuming professionals aren't going to send out your info for you to get spammed & that these individuals have no personal animus toward you to get your name added onto a spam list, you have to conclude that the stranger is not only a spammer but a total asshole. This was NOT you making first contact & then trying to get a freebie.
Who was this person, you may ask? Well, as I feel it's my duty to inform those I know in the business about professionalism & counter the BS where I can I'll tell you. That would be Jenn Lederer of The Dream Management. Her competence is not a concern for me (the typical reason I'd not work with someone in this business). It's her lack of business etiquette.
I also wonder how much respect she actually has for lawyers considering when I saw her speak, she told actors to see about getting a writing to get reel footage for student films but that the filmmakers could choose at their leisure whether to give it up or not. Not wanting to announce to the entire room my entire resume or background, I thought loudly "That's a contract! If these people don't act, the performer could sue & maybe even get an injunction against the film getting a distribution deal, going to festivals, etc. At the very least, they might be able to get some money. Depends on what this contract says & what you include or not."
I've also told people not to waste their time with anyone who won't sign contracts or freaks out when you mention discussing the work with your lawyer or manager since that shouts "unprofessional." Even on my company's no budget, no name films you'd better believe there were contracts. That "smile & a handshake" stuff doesn't cut it if you want to be a working professional in entertainment. No professional I've met has EVER said this to an actor & or devalued lawyers in this way.
This leads to Rule #6, which is especially for renaissance people: various careers or sides of a person don't exist in a vacuum. If you think I'm not going to use knowledge I get about you in the context of my film company work or legal work, then woe unto you. Treat me like shit in some other context & like every single other professional who works behind the scenes in entertainment, I will take notes & make sure you're not subjecting my team to your crap. We have no patience or time to be magnanimous, nor should that be expected of us. Demanding it from us definitely won't get you anywhere. That's why such complaints don't impress me.
My lawyer side doesn't vanish just because I'm doing an acting gig. That producer trainee/film exec side doesn't go away if I'm at a lawyer event. I watch how you conduct yourself, how you treat people, what you say, etc. Renaissance people are the people you'd better be impressing hardest since we ARE doing so much stuff & probably have more contacts among so many areas than the average person. We could help you or we could ruin you.
I'm hardly an unreasonable person, overly sensitive or insist on ego stroking but don't you find that screwed up? I don't even know of an attorney charging law grads, new lawyers or anyone else for informational interviews or networking meetings (and you'd expect that from the dreaded lawyers; hell, I could make a fortune from it if I were an asshole). I could guarantee most lawyers' busy schedules would put her own schedule to shame, no matter how busy she is. I also wrote her the next day to mention these truths to her (I also mentioned being from NC & having friends + family living there considering she'd claimed people in NC had no souls during her talk to see if she gets that maybe I'd find it offensive).
If she apologized, it would be all good but since she has not, I'm afraid her actors won't be working with my company. After all, if she's that disrespectful to me a.k.a. "the enforcer," how's she going to treat a producer or director? Is she just going to further actor/director conflicts vs. helping find a solution? That's what I feel like she'd end up doing.
I should however, thank the acting coach who had her speak since I likely wouldn't have been able to have that conversation in any other forum & it saved me a lot of time and headaches. John Pallotta, you're awesome (and he is, really).
So kids, you violate business etiquette at your own peril. If you think you don't need to learn it, think again. Remember, I'm one of those easygoing, non-asshole lawyers who acts like a real person. Imagine how I'd react to this if I were a stereotypical lawyer. Imagine if she were a law firm associate pulling this mess with a law firm partner.
First off, NY state is soon to be the very first state in the US to require all new attorneys to undergo 50 hours of pro bono work before being admitted to the bar & provide certification of this to the bar examiners. This article is a good overview on the issue & addresses some things.
However, I feel the need to comment since I don't think it goes far enough & doesn't cover things I've said:
1. You may know I'm doing my first stint of Monday Night Law this year. If you read one of my earlier entries, you read about a conversation I overheard about someone being turned down for pro bono work she actually wanted to do & cared about b/c the organization only wanted BigLaw attorneys trying to meet their pro bono requirement.
Now what about these aspiring lawyers? They're not going to have malpractice insurance to cover them. If these organizations are so strapped for cash, they can't cover experienced attorneys volunteering then how are they going to cover these new folks?
2. Why should new attorneys get to be involved in programs to "get experience" when there are tons of unemployed attorneys who could use it? What about the attorneys who actually WANT to be there getting the experience & feeling good about doing it? Don't they count?
3. Let's expand on that that whole "reluctant volunteer" issue: many of these volunteer projects won't take new attorneys. Monday Night Law doesn't take attorneys admitted less than 2 years. Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts won't take you unless you've been a lawyer for 7 years (I'm heading into my 5th year, even though I've been doing far more in this business than their majority BigLaw volunteers probably have; reading Yelp reviews of them also makes me adamant about never recommending anyone I know there). Presumably, you want to take on pro bono work that might have relevance to what you want to do, right? Or maybe you'd like to do something you'd actually, oh I don't know, ENJOY?
What if there's no opportunity for that? Then what? Are we now subjecting people who can't afford legal counsel to bitter, miserable law students/graduates who are only there to get this pro bono requirement met & could care less about their problems or them as people? The requirement doesn't say "50 hours of pro bono work where you built rapport with clients" or "50 hours of pro bono work where you helped clients w/their matters." It just says "50 hours of pro bono work." Not a word about the quality of it.
I would hope that the students commenting on this article are right about people caring about using their schooling to help others but I can't help but wonder about the elitist types who don't want to be there, are miserable & will take it out on any organization they work with as well as any clients walking in the door. You know there are some.
I personally CHOSE what I did & don't regret it. Working at my school's legal clinic proved to me that I wasn't really cut out for the politics & craziness of a law firm. The helping people aspect was great (and that makes a lawyer feel better since if you're not in charge or a veteran lawyer, you're often made to feel useless, incompetent & like you've got a permanent case of two left feet or foot in mouth disease). The life lessons & war stories were great truths I use to this day. However, the stories I heard about law firms & the time I was yelled at by one of our professors in the second phase of my work there were enough for me to say "Nope, not happening for me."
There are some projects I would have no interest or desire in doing. Helping someone convicted of many sorts of crimes is one (rape, animal abuse, neglecting children, hate crimes, etc.). Anything dealing with illegal immigrants is another. I have some very personal beliefs on these subjects that would make representation by me not only ineffective but verboten under ethics rules (attorneys can't take cases where they will not be able to provide zealous advocacy or effective counsel due to personal biases, religious beliefs, etc.). If you have to subject someone to a more rigorous screening process than you would for something where you don't have personal biases, then you can't effectively counsel him/her.
These are some of the individuals lawyers come in contact with & the people society doesn't like or approve of do need legal counsel. However, I know there are certain cases I can't take & certain projects I wouldn't be a fit for. I'm sure there are attorneys who wouldn't be able to deal with some of the matters I have but that's why there's a little something for everyone. At least, when you're licensed.
4. Some schools apparently have some very competitive clinic & internship/externship programs. Fortunately, I didn't attend such a law school but I've read about places where if you aren't on law review or top of the class you won't get into any of the law school programs. If you're in that boat, then what do you do? Again, there's that problem of not getting the opportunity you want & being forced into something where you & everyone around you will be miserable.
I have to wonder if this is a "do good" way to project yet more elitism into NY bar admissions. No one's going to say "Oh, it's a bad idea to require lawyers to help the less fortunate," but if you're dealing with a lower ranked student at one of these schools with a competitive clinic/internship/externship program who then has no ability to meet the requirement (presuming the outside organizations also try instituting grade requirements, which isn't uncommon at some places & especially considering nearly all the decision makers in the legal field view GPA/class rank as the only way to determine one's value as a human being), you've just shut out the attorneys who are ranked lower in the class. You see where I might get that notion & why it could raise hackles?
5. Then, to get away from the issues I took with this requirement was the point brought up by many about the whole notion of indentured servitude of lawyers. In case you haven't heard, the legal job market sucks for new grads. Even BigLaw isn't taking all the top GPA/law review members & starting a business without money, contacts, etc. is extremely hard. Some of us are good hustlers. Some of us are great at networking. Some of us can get breaks by doing this stuff.
However, you can be a good networker & still have problems in this economy. You can't MAKE someone give you a job or an opportunity. You can't make someone do something they don't want to do. Plain & simple.
So I do think the people pointing out this being indentured servitude that the folk imposing this aren't going to have to do personally do make a good point. It does seem like you shouldn't outsource your own pro bono duties or even duties to help society/your fellow man in general to the attorney applicants, who really have no say in the matter & can't object.
In sum, I think it's a noble idea but misguided. You can't really force anyone to be a good citizen. It's either there or it isn't. Kind of like what my law school Ethics professor said in class. He said he couldn't instill Ethics into us as 20 somethings & either we had ethics or we didn't. Same goes for this. You've either got a sense of altruism & care about helping people or you don't. I don't think this requirement is going to make a selfish, elitist scumbag become Mother Teresa all of a sudden.
Plus, the people imposing this requirement ignore the issue of classism among the poor. Those people will know in a second if some aspiring NY bar applicant is being patronizing or just there to collect hours vs. really caring about their issue, empathetic to that client & "gets" it. It is a different world & if you don't brief people on it, they will give off a terrible impression to the client + may even discourage that client from ever seeking out a lawyer again. We know not everyone involved in pro bono projects cares about the work or the people coming for help.
So, that's a special lawyer issue that is definitely important to the community at large & I'd love to know what non-lawyers think about it, especially those who'd likely have to go to these organizations to get legal representation. I wonder if the Chief Justice is taking statements from those people directly; if not, he should consider them.
Now, we're going to look at business etiquette. Consider the following scenario:
You have an e-mail account that is not available to the general public. The only acceptable way someone would get the address is by A) getting your business card or headshot/resume (most likely from you), B) being a member of a bar association or networking group you belong to i.e. an attorney or entertainment professional, C) you initiating contact with the person.
I say "acceptable" to mean a method where it was okay for the person to reach out to you. Those who have this e-mail also know not to pass your information along without asking you first. The majority of your contacts are attorneys, entertainment professionals working behind the scenes or people you've told not to spread your info around without asking.
Attorneys & entertainment professionals generally don't share your info without asking since they get hassled enough by strangers & if they share your info without asking, they know you could (and probably would) do it right back to them. If they do it to lots of people, they will effectively get blackballed. Everyone knows this.
Another fact about this e-mail account: your full name is not associated with it. That means if you sent an e-mail to someone using it, they would not get your name unless you put it in there. You're extremely conscientious & paranoid about giving out your name to strangers since you come up first in a Google search. So, this account is one of those insider things.
Rule #1: Do NOT use a "secret" e-mail, phone number, fax number, screen name or social media account to contact a stranger. Assume a 98% chance that you will piss off that stranger. This is why getting lists of contacts for the entertainment industry doesn't really work if you don't have a personal friend/contact of that stranger that will vouch for you.
The same goes for lawyers who don't have law firms. Don't contact lawyer/film execs through a secret means. Secret means you wouldn't find it in an online search & have no one to vouch for you.
Rule #2: If you spam someone, be prepared to tell the person how you got that secret means of communication, apologize & take what's coming to you. You ARE in the wrong. Make no mistake about it.
Rule #3: If you're going to send your newsletters/updates/impersonal correspondence to a stranger, be prepared to accept any such correspondence that stranger may send. This includes information about fundraising campaigns for films, newsletters & any other business correspondence. If you want someone to care about YOUR company/updates/life, you'll have to do the same for your recipients. This is life.
Rule #4: If the stranger reaches out to you about networking & says you may be a useful contact (especially where that strangers is someone who could hire your clients), you seize that opportunity to be friendly. If that person was someone you chose to target with your materials, any rational person would conclude that you are open to networking with said person. After all, why waste your time with people you don't see an opportunity in dealing with?
Rule #5: Follow up with people who could hire your clients or otherwise help your business. To only look at the present time & not the long term future is stupid. For those in the entertainment field: not networking with entertainment lawyers is stupid, presumptuous & will screw you sooner or later.
Most entertainment folk know better than to snub lawyers; even your newest actors tend to be at least polite to entertainment law attorneys. As one person told me once, we serve a useful & important function. Don't you fucking forget it; if you're going to do anything professionally in entertainment, you will need us. It's just a matter of time. Find someone who makes a living in the entertainment field who doesn't have a lawyer or an agent/manager who is a licensed attorney. I dare you.
And as you don't piss off entertainment lawyers in general, you don't piss off someone who knows a lot of attorneys & has extensive contacts in entertainment law. Guess who most of my lawyer contacts are? Entertainment law attorneys. Common interests, people.
I also look out for my friends & if I hear they're going to be working with someone I know is a jerk, I'll be saying something.
Back to the scenario:
You get a newsletter from a total stranger in this "secret" e-mail account. It contains your full name in the Recipient line. You don't know the name in any context. This isn't a LinkedIn contact, a member of a LinkedIn group, a business contact, a lawyer or someone who'd have a legitimate reason to have your e-mail. Nor did this person acknowledge that they're sending you this thing & don't know you.
In doing your homework, you learn this person could be a good contact & might be able to answer a simple informational question. Sort of a cross between informational interview & "What's it like to do X?" inquiry. You get a response by phone then send your info so the person can do their research on you.
You hear nothing. Then, you take an opportunity to meet this spammer/potentially useful contact in person. Figuring maybe this person's busy, you're not too phased with a lack of response to your e-mail. After all, you know people in this stranger's line of work tend to be busy.
When you hear this person speak, you get an impression of competence & the person does have some sense of humor.
However, you ask this person directly about what you wrote in e-mail & guess what the stranger does? The stranger attempts to recruit you for one on one time & charge you money for it.
Remember, this person reached out to YOU & had no way of having your private e-mail account. You asked everyone who had that personal e-mail that may have dealt with this stranger & no one knew this person. Presuming professionals aren't going to send out your info for you to get spammed & that these individuals have no personal animus toward you to get your name added onto a spam list, you have to conclude that the stranger is not only a spammer but a total asshole. This was NOT you making first contact & then trying to get a freebie.
Who was this person, you may ask? Well, as I feel it's my duty to inform those I know in the business about professionalism & counter the BS where I can I'll tell you. That would be Jenn Lederer of The Dream Management. Her competence is not a concern for me (the typical reason I'd not work with someone in this business). It's her lack of business etiquette.
I also wonder how much respect she actually has for lawyers considering when I saw her speak, she told actors to see about getting a writing to get reel footage for student films but that the filmmakers could choose at their leisure whether to give it up or not. Not wanting to announce to the entire room my entire resume or background, I thought loudly "That's a contract! If these people don't act, the performer could sue & maybe even get an injunction against the film getting a distribution deal, going to festivals, etc. At the very least, they might be able to get some money. Depends on what this contract says & what you include or not."
I've also told people not to waste their time with anyone who won't sign contracts or freaks out when you mention discussing the work with your lawyer or manager since that shouts "unprofessional." Even on my company's no budget, no name films you'd better believe there were contracts. That "smile & a handshake" stuff doesn't cut it if you want to be a working professional in entertainment. No professional I've met has EVER said this to an actor & or devalued lawyers in this way.
This leads to Rule #6, which is especially for renaissance people: various careers or sides of a person don't exist in a vacuum. If you think I'm not going to use knowledge I get about you in the context of my film company work or legal work, then woe unto you. Treat me like shit in some other context & like every single other professional who works behind the scenes in entertainment, I will take notes & make sure you're not subjecting my team to your crap. We have no patience or time to be magnanimous, nor should that be expected of us. Demanding it from us definitely won't get you anywhere. That's why such complaints don't impress me.
My lawyer side doesn't vanish just because I'm doing an acting gig. That producer trainee/film exec side doesn't go away if I'm at a lawyer event. I watch how you conduct yourself, how you treat people, what you say, etc. Renaissance people are the people you'd better be impressing hardest since we ARE doing so much stuff & probably have more contacts among so many areas than the average person. We could help you or we could ruin you.
I'm hardly an unreasonable person, overly sensitive or insist on ego stroking but don't you find that screwed up? I don't even know of an attorney charging law grads, new lawyers or anyone else for informational interviews or networking meetings (and you'd expect that from the dreaded lawyers; hell, I could make a fortune from it if I were an asshole). I could guarantee most lawyers' busy schedules would put her own schedule to shame, no matter how busy she is. I also wrote her the next day to mention these truths to her (I also mentioned being from NC & having friends + family living there considering she'd claimed people in NC had no souls during her talk to see if she gets that maybe I'd find it offensive).
If she apologized, it would be all good but since she has not, I'm afraid her actors won't be working with my company. After all, if she's that disrespectful to me a.k.a. "the enforcer," how's she going to treat a producer or director? Is she just going to further actor/director conflicts vs. helping find a solution? That's what I feel like she'd end up doing.
I should however, thank the acting coach who had her speak since I likely wouldn't have been able to have that conversation in any other forum & it saved me a lot of time and headaches. John Pallotta, you're awesome (and he is, really).
So kids, you violate business etiquette at your own peril. If you think you don't need to learn it, think again. Remember, I'm one of those easygoing, non-asshole lawyers who acts like a real person. Imagine how I'd react to this if I were a stereotypical lawyer. Imagine if she were a law firm associate pulling this mess with a law firm partner.
Tuesday, December 27, 2011
What the Holy Fuck?!?! Craig's List Ads, Part 2
It's time. Oh, yes it's time for another installment of this. Seriously, some of the more recent ads I've seen deserve that statement but some classically stupid ones will be mixed in as well.
First off, look at this one:
Looking for a Summer Internship in New York City? (TriBeCa)
Date: 2010-05-26, 4:44PM EDT
Reply to: job-dtdnw-1761062650@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
PLEASE READ EVERY PART OF THIS POSTING, APPLICANTS THAT DO NOT READ AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED
FAST PACED INNOVATIVE YOUNG BEAUTY INDUSTRY COMPANY SEEKING A SUMMER INTERN
THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH AND MEET GREAT PEOPLE.
THE POSITION STARTS JUNE 7TH AND ENDS BEGINNING OF AUGUST (DEPENDING ON WHEN SCHOOL SEMESTER STARTS)
A PERMANENT PAID POSITION COULD BE OFFERED WITH THE COMPANY FOR THE INTERN THAT DOES GREAT WORK! YOU MUST PROVE YOURSELF
DUTIES WILL INCLUDE BUT LIMITED TO:
- Answering phones
- Filing documents
- Office errands
- Helping with photo shoots
- Managing the calendar
- Social Media management (blogs/facebook/twitter)
- Mail/shipments (receiving and sending out)
- General assisting with any tasks given
REQUIRMENTS FOR THE INTERN POSITION:
- Professional manner and dress code
- Great knowledge in beauty/fashion/entertainment and current trends
- Great skills with MS Word, Powerpoint and Word
- Someone that is internet savvy
- Creative writing skills for blog content/ideas
- Detail oriented
- Extremely good with time management
- Ability to work with high profile people in a professional manner
- Great people skills
- Attend fashion/social events with company CEO and assist in whatever way required
- Candidate must be open to travel if asked
PLEASE RESPOND WITH RESUME INSIDE THE BODY OF YOUR EMAIL - DO NOT SEND YOUR RESUME IN ATTACHMENT FORM PLEASE.
INTERVIEWS BEGIN TUESDAY JUNE 1 IN OUR NEW YORK CITY OFFICE, IF YOU ARE LATE TO YOUR INTERVIEW YOU WILL NOT BE HIRED.
LOCATION, COMPANY INFORMATION WILL ONLY BE GIVEN TO CANDIDATES THAT WILL ACTUALLY INTERVIEW.
THE HOURS OF WORK WOULD BE MON- FRI FOR 30 - 40 HOURS A WEEK. TIMES ARE FLEXIBLE AND DEPENDENT ON TASKS GIVEN.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS THAT CAN BE ANSWERED ABOVE.
ONLY SERIOUS CANDIDATES NEED APPLY
Compensation: Unpaid Internship
This is a part-time job.
This is an internship job
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 1761062650
Somebody's awfully damn demanding for an unpaid internship, don't you think? Plus, it's illegal to offer internships with full time hours. How would one make a living doing one, huh? Even if it weren't illegal (and you can go to the state or federal EEOC websites & read up on internship rules if you don't believe me), it's also classist. These people deserve what they get since they certainly aren't bright enough to get legal counsel before posting this crap.
Here's another one thinking they're such a saint to offer the "option" of part time, unpaid work.
Fashion Internship -Editorial, PR, Events, marketing (New York)
Date: 2011-11-16, 10:04AM EST
Reply to: gigs-h7ray-2705246885@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
A boutique full service Media, marketing/PR/Event Production fashion company is currently looking to fill the following internship positions: Editorial assistant, Marketing assistant, and Event planning/PR intern to assist with fashion magazine, Fashion week and other major Event Productions up coming. Ideal candidate will be available Mon-Fri; however we will consider part-time availability as well. You will be fully involved in all aspects of our company., but your primary focus will be on the position you are hired for.
This is a challenging and busy internship, with many rewards. You will be part of a fun and creative environment and will learn a lot about fashion, marketing, editorial procedures, and event planning while networking with a lot of professional contacts in the industry. This
internship is Unpaid but a valuable opportunity to work your way to a permanent position.
Skills and Qualities Required:
Energetic and ready for a challenge
Excellent verbal communication (primarily telephone) and written skills
Professional and friendly manner
Determined and motivated
Strong computer skills and internet research ability
Ability to multi-task
Detail oriented
Strong organizational skills
A self-starter takes initiative
Ambitious and intelligent
MUST be proficient in Microsoft Office Suite and/'or MAC
Location: New York
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2705246885
Maybe I should be glad they at least aren't trying to weasel free work from skilled people but sounds an awful lot like an attempt to get unpaid FULL time labor.
And if you think only unnamed companies do this, you would be wrong. Unprofessional? Absolutely in my perspective. Consider this ad:
Casting Internship (Flatiron)
Date: 2011-12-20, 1:05PM EST
Reply to: gigs-k7bvn-2762491911@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
DONNA GROSSMAN CASTING is offering a casting internship, at one of the leading commercial and print offices in New York City.
We are looking for someone who is passionate about the entertainment industry, hard-working and fun!
Duties will include answering phones, setting up auditions, sorting submissions, general office maintenance and working directly with Donna Grossman.
There is a very high level of responsibility, and we treat this internship as a serious, full-time job. Our interns are an integral part of the day to day operations in the office. Hours are 9:00am to 6:00pm. Internship is unpaid, but lunch will be provided. A full-time three month commitment would be ideal, but we are willing to work around the right candidate's schedule.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2762491911
As someone working in this business & having friends who like having a good reputation, this required a response. It wasn't as brutal as some of them can be but it is entirely factual:
Just so you know, it's illegal under state & federal labor laws to have a full time internship. That would be called "slavery" & an attempt to cut out paid professionals by hiring unpaid interns. The state of NY has been cracking down on illegal internships so you may want to rethink posting such an ad on a public website.
Plus, you are making someone PAY to work for you since I see no mention of covering transportation costs or the ability to work remotely. This is a recession & monthly Metrocards are over $100 (which is what you're demanding be paid for a "full time" assignment). Those costs add up and don't magically take of themselves. How do you expect people to pay their rent, utlities, etc.? Do you just want some spoiled trust fund baby who's never worked for anything?
I personally work in this business & did an internship myself with a well known talent agent; however, there are rules & considerations to be made if you expect someone to work for free & have ZERO interest in your buisness. If you were offering PAY or equity for FULL TIME work that was aligned with what I have recently earned in the open marketplace (not necessarily a lawyer rate unless I was asked to use my legal license), I would consider it. I actually have experience in this business, have been told I should consider commercial work b/c of my looks + prefer working with creative types. Plus, I own an entertainment business that you could have gotten potential work from.
However, because you'd rather exploit some newbie instead of paying a professional for his/her talent & skill, I am not interested. Rest assured that I have already formed some very strong impressions from seeing this ad & will make sure my contacts steer clear of you. Thanks so much for tarnishing the reputation of this business for those who ARE professionals and would NEVER demand someone to work 40 hours a week FOR FREE. You get what you pay for.
Ads like this breed hatred and resentment for employers, especially smaller businesses though corporations do a lot of sneaky, shady things as well.
This has made me certain not to hire Donna Grossman Casting since if they can't be bothered to pay people for performing full time work (violating labor laws), imagine how many other laws & rules they violate on a regular basis. Do they place SAG talent & look the other way while clients break SAG rules? How hard are they even working for those clients?
Remember employers, job ads tell the world about you as well & ads that tell me you can't even bother having a lawyer read over them to make sure they're not violating labor laws tell me you're the same people who'd never sign contracts & expect me to "trust you" not to screw me over. Get real! Me reading such an ad is probably going to even trump my best friend's endorsement of your business (and I don't even have a best friend).
Then, let's talk about the blatant sexism in some of these ads. Consider these gems:
HOT, MASCULINE, GOOD LOOKING guy wanted as an Assistant (NYC)
Date: 2011-11-18, 9:39AM EST
Reply to: gigs-wg6ng-2708754013@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I am looking for a good looking, hard worker, easy going, open minded, very detail oriented, tall and masculine model looks younger guy to Assist me doing several tasks. MUST send pics and brief work history. This is an immediate opening. No drug addicts or weirdos
Location: NYC
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: 20
PostingID: 2708754013
Yes, it's still sexism even if it's a guy being exploited!!
Attractive female Personal Assistant Needed
Date: 2011-11-18, 10:37AM EST
Reply to: gigs-9qwxs-2708847400@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I am looking for a young attractive female to help me with working out, some office work, light cleaning, meeting assistance, etc p/t.
I am a normal, non perverted young professional entrepreneur who would like the company of a sane, normal female who is also pleasant and pretty.
Not looking for sex!
Microsoft office experience would be helpful the rest I can work with you on.
Flexible schedule is desired including nights Saturdays and maybe some Sundays. Bonuses also possible.
$20/hour
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: see above
PostingID: 2708847400
He's "not looking for sex" like the next reality TV whore isn't looking for fame & fortune. Otherwise, this schmuck wouldn't be looking for someone with looks. That ad's also a labor law violation since those tasks have nothing to do with looks. The person's not even being asked to sell things & you can't even post a "models only" ad for sales jobs unless you want to get busted by the Department of Labor.
Oh, and eye candy in the workplace isn't a fundamental right!!
Here's more casting couch garbage. Can't we phase that crap off the globe?
Aspiring Female Model
Date: 2011-12-10, 5:46PM EST
Reply to: gigs-3ez5q-2746683974@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Advertising agent with major cable network willing to exchange casting in prime time television commercials for adult benefits. If interested then please reply with a few photos, phone number in an email labeled "Prime Time."
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: TBD
PostingID: 2746683974
I've already ranted endlessly on this one. I hope this guy's dick falls off from all the STDs.
This one amused me some. I even had to respond to it:
Lazy, out of work Television Writer needs Assistant (NYC/LI)
Date: 2011-12-05, 1:05AM EST
Reply to: gigs-xaauh-2736480643@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Lazy, out of work, television writer needs an assistant. Responsibilities include: organization of research documents, organization of computer files (Mac), drafting correspondence from oral notes I give you (not dictation). I'm looking for someone who's natural writing style can write with economy, is easy to read, breezy and easy. (This is so that the correspondence is in my "voice.") You cover letter to me should reflect this style of writing. It shouldn't begin with "To Whom It May Concern," then you're definitely not the person I'm looking for. Or if you tell me you'll be a great addition to my company, then you're also not right for this job. A resume is appreciated, but what will really tell me that I've found the right person is whether your cover letter has that easy-going style without trying so hard that it shows. The pay is $10 per hour; approximately 12-20 hours per week. Scheduling is flexible. I divide my time between my office in the city and my home office in Nassau County when it's my day to watch the kids. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COVER LETTER to 25 WORDS or LESS because I want to see that you can write with simplicity and economy. THANK YOU.
Location: NYC/LI
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $10/hr
PostingID: 2736480643
My response:
So, you're a "lazy, out of work television writer." Why would one want to assist you? I'm curious about that.
You couldn't afford to hire me since I'm a licensed attorney & made the rate you're offering when I was a college student. My most recent temp job also paid me significantly more than your rate.
I'm also a business owner & started as the CEO's Exec Asst at my company; if you've announced you're lazy & out of work, how would one know the checks you give will be any good? I will give you credit for at least being honest in not having your shit together (unlike so many other Craig's List ad posters); I only wish others used that same courtesy so those seeking day jobs could be spared the BS.
And this, because it deals with indie film & I actually did it at one time, REALLY pissed me off:
Indie Filmmakers' Assistant
Date: 2011-12-25, 9:18PM EST
Reply to: gigs-k2sfx-2768803825@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Looking for a good-looking model or actor to be an assistant at the office 1 or 2 days a week
Please submit headshot with your reply.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2768803825
Here's what I wrote:
Hey, asshole! Thanks for making ALL indie filmmakers look like pornographers. I can tell you don't have an in-house lawyer b/c none of them would EVER allow you to post such an obvious ad that announces employment discrimination & potential sexual harassment.
Haven't you ever heard of a prostitute??? Surely, Long Island has some strip clubs or personals areas where you could find one instead of exploiting some pretty young thing who actually WANTS to work in this industry. I can also tell you aren't legit if you're using the Talent Gigs section of Craig's List as your personal dating website & this guise of a "job". Professionals only want people qualified to do the job, not window dressing or airheads who think they should coast by on looks & develop ZERO aptitude for ANYTHING ELSE.
There ARE female filmmakers out there & women involved in indie film who didn't slut it up to get there (many of whom are personal friends). If you display this blatant sexism in your professional life, I guarantee one of them will kick you in the balls sooner or later when you inevitably offend them or their sensibilities.
Yes, it's true!! Women in indie film don't take shit from sexist scumbags & I could totally see one kicking a guy in the balls for offending her. If one did, she'd end up becoming decoration instead of a real team player. I'd probably do much worse to you if you offend my sensibilities but I'm harder to offend & you'll know when you've done it.
As one of my exes once said, prettier women are more likely to be carrying weapons & knowing how to take care of themselves b/c they've had to deal with more harassment. Sound logic, huh? These morons should probably consider that. I have seen what happens to a guy when a woman hits him in the balls & it's not pretty (no, I didn't do it; I saw someone else do it).
Now, some illustration of why unpaid extra work is a waste of time if you're not a friend of the director or a producer:
Horror Film Casting- (Long Island)
Date: 2011-11-19, 1:43PM EST
Reply to: gigs-jsaew-2710909368@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Serious people who want to act only! Known Stars will be on set and we do not want anyone bothering them with autographs.
Large production company seeking actors and actresses to play lead roles on Monday Nov 21st at 12 noon. This is an incredible role with names attached to the movie. The location is within walking distance front he Wantagh L.I.R.R. We are seeking actors and actresses from 21-40. These roles will be speaking lines.
Be sure to send a HEADSHOT or you will NOT be considered for the role.
Shoot is 2 blocks from the railroad station
Send resume for condiseration!
Kaila martin
Casting Director CSI
Location: Long Island
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2710909368
This was posted in the Bronx section of Craig's List, not Long Island. That meant The Angry Redheaded Lawyer had to respond for the sake of taking someone down a few pegs.
Wow, you're seriously deluded!!!
If you want "Serious people who want to act only" and expect these same people working for NOTHING & in fact LOSING MONEY traveling to LONG ISLAND to not bother your "known stars" for autographs, I suggest you start paying folk. That's what professionals do & it's as clear as crystal that you're a fake.
Plus, any production that can afford a casting director can afford to pay background. At the very least, that production wouldn't be posting an ad in a borough of NYC & expecting professionals to travel ON THEIR DIME to Long Island i.e. the suburbs.
You get what you pay for.
And, nobody cares about "exposure." Ask your friends & people who like you, not strangers reading Craig's List.
EXTRAS, EXTRAS (NYC, LES)
Date: 2011-12-05, 12:05PM EST
Reply to: gigs-3d4fw-2737017774@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
If you want to be a part of an amazing experience and be seen in an international music video, then we want you!
We need men and women, in club attire with hair and makeup already done to come to the set at 9am on Sunday, Dec. 11th and stay as long as you can.
In exchange, you will have global exposure with the release of this music video.
Please contact with picture so we can provide more details and and answer any questions you may have.
Location: NYC, LES
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2737017774
Lastly, in case you thought attorneys, who are supposed to know more about the law & what it means than anyone else never post illegal & downright insulting ads you'll rethink that when you feast your eyes on these next few. Take a look:
Paralegal Intern (Financial District)
Date: 2010-11-24, 4:27PM EST
Reply to: job-jgshj-2078237569@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
About EEC
Eltman Eltman & Cooper, is the leading judgment enforcement law firm in the country. EEC has pioneered the location of enforceable assets on dormant judgment portfolios allowing clients to maximize returns on assets once thought of as uncollectible.
National judgment enforcement and creditor rights law firm seeking a paralegal intern.
The position offered is an unpaid internship.
The assumption is that candidates will receive credit from their school for this internship. Even if the candidate is not seeking school credit, this is an opportunity to gain invaluable practical experience.
We will train, but candidates should have good writing and speaking skills and be willing to handle everything from administrative tasks to substantive legal work.
Candidates should be available to begin their internship immediately.
Responsibilities:
As the sole paralegal intern working directly with the firm’s in-house counsel, you will be exposed to a number of key legal documents, issues and initiatives that are aiding the growth of the firm’s business.
You will have the opportunity to work on a variety of matters within the firm, such as:
• Coordinating with other firms and clients for preparation, signing and filing of vital legal documents
• Reviewing, drafting and/or filing legal documents
• Assisting with all administrative duties for in-house counsel
• Qualifications:
• Familiarity with legal documents
• Basic understanding of legal terms
• Ability to work independently and in groups
• Strong organizational skills
• Ability to multi-task
• Superior attention to detail
EEC is an equal opportunity employer.
Interested candidates should send resume with cover letter.
Compensation: Unpaid internship
This is an internship job
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2078237569
I've done paralegal work. No one needs an "internship" to do it. They may have paralegal schools & programs but I did those tasks without doing any of that. There's nothing to learn that one would have to "intern" to learn how to do; it's not brain surgery or even law practice. Can we say "attempt to exploit people for free labor???" Look, they even listed their name!
Consider it another business I'll never work with & will make sure to steer my colleagues far away from. They also have some interesting facts about them already if you do a Google search.
This one was posted recently & really made me mad:
Lawyer or Law Student Sought (Gramercy)
Date: 2011-12-26, 3:02PM EST
Reply to: gigs-qxq8z-2769573846@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
We're looking for someone to write our trademark application. We have a pro-Bono relationship with a top law firm in Manhattan. Your work will be reviewed by the law firm. Your compensation will be $10/hour and introduction to the law firm attorney who will review the application.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $10/hour plus networking.
PostingID: 2769573846
Here's what I wrote in response:
If you have a pro-bono relationship w/a "top law firm in Manhattan," then why are you exploiting some lawyer or law student? I made more than this an hour when I worked as a referral clerk in a mid-sized firm in Atlanta. The last time I made $10 an hour, I was a college student.
Unless the attorney reviewing the application is the managing partner of this firm & guaranteeing someone a job, this is nothing but exploitation (Did you know many attorneys are total assholes who would sell their own grandmothers for a nickel? They don't believe in the concept of networking or loyalty to others & I've read blogs/comments written by BigLaw folks). I say this as an entertainment law attorney myself (I just defy the attorney stereotypes though I also don't take BS). You're insulting professionals here.
Even document review attorneys earn $25 an hour or so at this point & all they're doing is clicking a screen!
You should probably figure out just what you're offering before posting ads. Oh, and lawyers charge about $100 an hour if not more. People like you make prostitution sound better & better.
This is all true about attorneys as a group, the rates charged & the like. If this is what law students have to look forward to, they probably should engage in prostitution. They could always try go-go dancing at this venue:
Earn 1000's Weekly / Bikini GO-GO Dancers Wanted For NYC Sports Bar (Midtown)
Date: 2011-03-16, 12:14AM EDT
Reply to: taxcutsnow09@aol.com [Errors when replying to ads?]
Earn Thousands Per Week as A GOGO Dancer, Bikini only in a NYC Sports Bar located in TIME SQUARE. Be Your own Boss and Set Your Own Hours
Contact us By email and Please send Pics. Exciting Oppurtunity to Work in a Upscale location
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2268011329
I haven't seen more of these in the Legal jobs section lately but I always find it funny & innovative of that proprietor when I do. That's a smart person who keeps up with the news.
Or, you could work for people who can barely spell:
HIREING ATTORNEYS --GREAT OPPORTUNITIES (Midtown)
Date: 2011-12-15, 3:46PM EST
Reply to: job-uqae7-2754978446@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
To be a practicing attorney is every JD or LLM student's dream . . . whether you are a US citizen or a permanent resident. Unfortunately, during the current recession, graduation day has become unemployment day. Without professional guidance and in need of training, law graduates can become underemployed or jobless, even in debt. Without H1B sponsorship or any other legal status, international law school graduates face an even tougher employment market no matter how many state bar admissions you have.
Our firm will start you on the great path to your respectable career.
Please send your cover letter and resume to： P.O BOX 20281, New York, NY 10001-994
Or Email.
Only motivated applicants with a commitment to stay and work in the US long-term are welcome.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2754978446
I decided to pass on sending in anything for this because just as an employer will knock an applicant out for spelling errors in your resume & cover letter, I think applicants should be knocking out employers for errors in their ads. I certainly do it, anyway.
I don't want to work for someone who demands me to be literate when they can't even do it themselves. That's like a parent who makes their kid eat brussel sprouts when they themselves wouldn't even eat them. Screw them! If you're going to impose high standards on others, you'd better be imposing them on yourself first.
As for more client arrogance:
Need an Attorney Writer - REVISED (New York City)
Date: 2011-08-10, 10:08AM EDT
Reply to: gigs-jfjpq-2539432954@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I need a licensed new york lawyer to register a corporation for me and prepare all the paperwork and serve as a registered agent of process. The lawyer must a PO BOX or physical address to receive processes if there are ever any. Newly licensed attorneys and senior lawyers welcome to apply. We are a small start up hence budget our current budget is limited. But there will be prospects of future business. $75 is intended for attorney fees only I will pay all the filling fees to the govt seperately
Location: New York City
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $75 for attorney fees
PostingID: 2539432954
Wow, you're going to pay a whopping $75 for all of this legal paperwork & demand the person to be your registered agent of process. How hard up are you as a start up to do this??? They need to be asking a friend.
Here's what I wrote in response:
Legal Zoom charges more than the $75 you propose to pay to an attorney for that kind of work. In fact, I know attorneys charge on average over $300 for this. $75 is a low hourly rate for even a BRAND NEW attorney (as in just got admitted to the bar yesterday). I've written business letters of 2-3 pages for $250.
Stop insulting attorneys with your pitiful $75 for hours & hours of work! It costs more than that to pay for ONE attorney CLE class (CLE classes are required in the state of NY for an attorney to keep a NY license) & on average, lawyers have to undertake hundreds of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS of NON-DISCHARGEABLE loan debt just to get licened.
You'd be wise to remember the saying "you get what you pay for."
It is NOT the attorney's problem that you're broke!!! We've got our own shit to pay for! Are YOU paying six figure student loan debts, many of which from private loan companies (who offer nothing but "fuck you, pay me" plans if you recall)? Unless or until you're doing that, don't talk to me about your poverty. No attorney wants to hear about that b/c we will top you. We want a fair (as in market) rate. Otherwise, you need to be asking an attorney friend/family member or making some new friends.
Hint: you will not make them by assuming the world owes you legal services & giving zero back.
This stuff is an insult & pisses me off. How likely do you think it is that I'm going to do anything to benefit you when you have insulted me? Hell will freeze over first. Stuff like that also discourages us from doing anyone a favor.
Finally, in this last installment of "What the Hell Was This Person Thinking?" is this ad. Someone apparently doesn't know the difference between a mentor & a teacher:
Mentor "Needed" Lip Balm (Financial District)
Date: 2011-12-26, 7:02PM EST
Reply to: gigs-kp2zq-2769922058@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Starting a Company seeking a mentor. What I am looking for.
Willing to Stay Primarily on My Agenda, Not Her/His Own
Open to Learning From ME, As Well As Teaching ME
Successful in Your Eyes
One Who Can Help Me Define My Dream and a Plan to Turn My Dream into Reality
One Who Believes in My Potential
A Teacher
Deeply Committed to Me
A Model for Me
Honest With Me
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2769922058
Here's my response:
Some free tips for you:
1. Tell people what type of company you're trying to start. Don't you want a mentor that knows something about what you're trying to do??? Starting a law firm isn't the same as a film company and starting a non-profit isn't the same as starting a restaurant. Different rules, different experiences, different obstacles. Talk to someone w/some authority on the matter.
2. Craig's List isn't the forum to find a mentor. You should be trying LinkedIn. Maybe join some groups & talk to people doing what you want to do. Perhaps there's a business association or networking group for what you want to do that could also be helpful.
3. You don't tell a mentor that they have to learn from YOU or that they have to be focused ONLY on YOU. Mentorship is a TWO WAY street!!!!!!!! Plus, who the Hell are YOU that someone w/the expertise you want for some business you've yet to identify should be learning ANYTHING from you? What have YOU done? What struggles have YOU faced? What adversity did you ever overcome? Did you earn your way in life or did Mommy & Daddy hand it to you?
I guarantee if you tell someone that without saying WHY anyone could learn from you, you'll be seen as just another arrogant Millenial & the person will be thinking the same things. People have their own shit to do as well & if you don't want to deal with that, you need to seek an actual teacher or career counselor. See #4.
4. On that note, teachers & advisers are paid MONEY for their expertise. If you want that type of one-sided relationship, you need to be offering some pay. People with skills decide if they want to volunteer their services, not the people who seek those services.
Lastly, Craig's List isn't your personal networking group & no one cares about your personal growth. You want sympathy, pay for it. Later.
I certainly have a negative impression of this person after reading this ad. Wouldn't you?
That concludes this installment. I bet you can still find some of these ads on Craig's List if you want to have some fun yourself laughing at the base stupidity, law violations & warped thinking that exist here. If you get a response, let me know what justifications these pinheads offer up.
First off, look at this one:
Looking for a Summer Internship in New York City? (TriBeCa)
Date: 2010-05-26, 4:44PM EDT
Reply to: job-dtdnw-1761062650@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
PLEASE READ EVERY PART OF THIS POSTING, APPLICANTS THAT DO NOT READ AND FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED
FAST PACED INNOVATIVE YOUNG BEAUTY INDUSTRY COMPANY SEEKING A SUMMER INTERN
THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH AND MEET GREAT PEOPLE.
THE POSITION STARTS JUNE 7TH AND ENDS BEGINNING OF AUGUST (DEPENDING ON WHEN SCHOOL SEMESTER STARTS)
A PERMANENT PAID POSITION COULD BE OFFERED WITH THE COMPANY FOR THE INTERN THAT DOES GREAT WORK! YOU MUST PROVE YOURSELF
DUTIES WILL INCLUDE BUT LIMITED TO:
- Answering phones
- Filing documents
- Office errands
- Helping with photo shoots
- Managing the calendar
- Social Media management (blogs/facebook/twitter)
- Mail/shipments (receiving and sending out)
- General assisting with any tasks given
REQUIRMENTS FOR THE INTERN POSITION:
- Professional manner and dress code
- Great knowledge in beauty/fashion/entertainment and current trends
- Great skills with MS Word, Powerpoint and Word
- Someone that is internet savvy
- Creative writing skills for blog content/ideas
- Detail oriented
- Extremely good with time management
- Ability to work with high profile people in a professional manner
- Great people skills
- Attend fashion/social events with company CEO and assist in whatever way required
- Candidate must be open to travel if asked
PLEASE RESPOND WITH RESUME INSIDE THE BODY OF YOUR EMAIL - DO NOT SEND YOUR RESUME IN ATTACHMENT FORM PLEASE.
INTERVIEWS BEGIN TUESDAY JUNE 1 IN OUR NEW YORK CITY OFFICE, IF YOU ARE LATE TO YOUR INTERVIEW YOU WILL NOT BE HIRED.
LOCATION, COMPANY INFORMATION WILL ONLY BE GIVEN TO CANDIDATES THAT WILL ACTUALLY INTERVIEW.
THE HOURS OF WORK WOULD BE MON- FRI FOR 30 - 40 HOURS A WEEK. TIMES ARE FLEXIBLE AND DEPENDENT ON TASKS GIVEN.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS THAT CAN BE ANSWERED ABOVE.
ONLY SERIOUS CANDIDATES NEED APPLY
Compensation: Unpaid Internship
This is a part-time job.
This is an internship job
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 1761062650
Somebody's awfully damn demanding for an unpaid internship, don't you think? Plus, it's illegal to offer internships with full time hours. How would one make a living doing one, huh? Even if it weren't illegal (and you can go to the state or federal EEOC websites & read up on internship rules if you don't believe me), it's also classist. These people deserve what they get since they certainly aren't bright enough to get legal counsel before posting this crap.
Here's another one thinking they're such a saint to offer the "option" of part time, unpaid work.
Fashion Internship -Editorial, PR, Events, marketing (New York)
Date: 2011-11-16, 10:04AM EST
Reply to: gigs-h7ray-2705246885@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
A boutique full service Media, marketing/PR/Event Production fashion company is currently looking to fill the following internship positions: Editorial assistant, Marketing assistant, and Event planning/PR intern to assist with fashion magazine, Fashion week and other major Event Productions up coming. Ideal candidate will be available Mon-Fri; however we will consider part-time availability as well. You will be fully involved in all aspects of our company., but your primary focus will be on the position you are hired for.
This is a challenging and busy internship, with many rewards. You will be part of a fun and creative environment and will learn a lot about fashion, marketing, editorial procedures, and event planning while networking with a lot of professional contacts in the industry. This
internship is Unpaid but a valuable opportunity to work your way to a permanent position.
Skills and Qualities Required:
Energetic and ready for a challenge
Excellent verbal communication (primarily telephone) and written skills
Professional and friendly manner
Determined and motivated
Strong computer skills and internet research ability
Ability to multi-task
Detail oriented
Strong organizational skills
A self-starter takes initiative
Ambitious and intelligent
MUST be proficient in Microsoft Office Suite and/'or MAC
Location: New York
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2705246885
Maybe I should be glad they at least aren't trying to weasel free work from skilled people but sounds an awful lot like an attempt to get unpaid FULL time labor.
And if you think only unnamed companies do this, you would be wrong. Unprofessional? Absolutely in my perspective. Consider this ad:
Casting Internship (Flatiron)
Date: 2011-12-20, 1:05PM EST
Reply to: gigs-k7bvn-2762491911@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
DONNA GROSSMAN CASTING is offering a casting internship, at one of the leading commercial and print offices in New York City.
We are looking for someone who is passionate about the entertainment industry, hard-working and fun!
Duties will include answering phones, setting up auditions, sorting submissions, general office maintenance and working directly with Donna Grossman.
There is a very high level of responsibility, and we treat this internship as a serious, full-time job. Our interns are an integral part of the day to day operations in the office. Hours are 9:00am to 6:00pm. Internship is unpaid, but lunch will be provided. A full-time three month commitment would be ideal, but we are willing to work around the right candidate's schedule.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2762491911
As someone working in this business & having friends who like having a good reputation, this required a response. It wasn't as brutal as some of them can be but it is entirely factual:
Just so you know, it's illegal under state & federal labor laws to have a full time internship. That would be called "slavery" & an attempt to cut out paid professionals by hiring unpaid interns. The state of NY has been cracking down on illegal internships so you may want to rethink posting such an ad on a public website.
Plus, you are making someone PAY to work for you since I see no mention of covering transportation costs or the ability to work remotely. This is a recession & monthly Metrocards are over $100 (which is what you're demanding be paid for a "full time" assignment). Those costs add up and don't magically take of themselves. How do you expect people to pay their rent, utlities, etc.? Do you just want some spoiled trust fund baby who's never worked for anything?
I personally work in this business & did an internship myself with a well known talent agent; however, there are rules & considerations to be made if you expect someone to work for free & have ZERO interest in your buisness. If you were offering PAY or equity for FULL TIME work that was aligned with what I have recently earned in the open marketplace (not necessarily a lawyer rate unless I was asked to use my legal license), I would consider it. I actually have experience in this business, have been told I should consider commercial work b/c of my looks + prefer working with creative types. Plus, I own an entertainment business that you could have gotten potential work from.
However, because you'd rather exploit some newbie instead of paying a professional for his/her talent & skill, I am not interested. Rest assured that I have already formed some very strong impressions from seeing this ad & will make sure my contacts steer clear of you. Thanks so much for tarnishing the reputation of this business for those who ARE professionals and would NEVER demand someone to work 40 hours a week FOR FREE. You get what you pay for.
Ads like this breed hatred and resentment for employers, especially smaller businesses though corporations do a lot of sneaky, shady things as well.
This has made me certain not to hire Donna Grossman Casting since if they can't be bothered to pay people for performing full time work (violating labor laws), imagine how many other laws & rules they violate on a regular basis. Do they place SAG talent & look the other way while clients break SAG rules? How hard are they even working for those clients?
Remember employers, job ads tell the world about you as well & ads that tell me you can't even bother having a lawyer read over them to make sure they're not violating labor laws tell me you're the same people who'd never sign contracts & expect me to "trust you" not to screw me over. Get real! Me reading such an ad is probably going to even trump my best friend's endorsement of your business (and I don't even have a best friend).
Then, let's talk about the blatant sexism in some of these ads. Consider these gems:
HOT, MASCULINE, GOOD LOOKING guy wanted as an Assistant (NYC)
Date: 2011-11-18, 9:39AM EST
Reply to: gigs-wg6ng-2708754013@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I am looking for a good looking, hard worker, easy going, open minded, very detail oriented, tall and masculine model looks younger guy to Assist me doing several tasks. MUST send pics and brief work history. This is an immediate opening. No drug addicts or weirdos
Location: NYC
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: 20
PostingID: 2708754013
Yes, it's still sexism even if it's a guy being exploited!!
Attractive female Personal Assistant Needed
Date: 2011-11-18, 10:37AM EST
Reply to: gigs-9qwxs-2708847400@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I am looking for a young attractive female to help me with working out, some office work, light cleaning, meeting assistance, etc p/t.
I am a normal, non perverted young professional entrepreneur who would like the company of a sane, normal female who is also pleasant and pretty.
Not looking for sex!
Microsoft office experience would be helpful the rest I can work with you on.
Flexible schedule is desired including nights Saturdays and maybe some Sundays. Bonuses also possible.
$20/hour
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: see above
PostingID: 2708847400
He's "not looking for sex" like the next reality TV whore isn't looking for fame & fortune. Otherwise, this schmuck wouldn't be looking for someone with looks. That ad's also a labor law violation since those tasks have nothing to do with looks. The person's not even being asked to sell things & you can't even post a "models only" ad for sales jobs unless you want to get busted by the Department of Labor.
Oh, and eye candy in the workplace isn't a fundamental right!!
Here's more casting couch garbage. Can't we phase that crap off the globe?
Aspiring Female Model
Date: 2011-12-10, 5:46PM EST
Reply to: gigs-3ez5q-2746683974@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Advertising agent with major cable network willing to exchange casting in prime time television commercials for adult benefits. If interested then please reply with a few photos, phone number in an email labeled "Prime Time."
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: TBD
PostingID: 2746683974
I've already ranted endlessly on this one. I hope this guy's dick falls off from all the STDs.
This one amused me some. I even had to respond to it:
Lazy, out of work Television Writer needs Assistant (NYC/LI)
Date: 2011-12-05, 1:05AM EST
Reply to: gigs-xaauh-2736480643@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Lazy, out of work, television writer needs an assistant. Responsibilities include: organization of research documents, organization of computer files (Mac), drafting correspondence from oral notes I give you (not dictation). I'm looking for someone who's natural writing style can write with economy, is easy to read, breezy and easy. (This is so that the correspondence is in my "voice.") You cover letter to me should reflect this style of writing. It shouldn't begin with "To Whom It May Concern," then you're definitely not the person I'm looking for. Or if you tell me you'll be a great addition to my company, then you're also not right for this job. A resume is appreciated, but what will really tell me that I've found the right person is whether your cover letter has that easy-going style without trying so hard that it shows. The pay is $10 per hour; approximately 12-20 hours per week. Scheduling is flexible. I divide my time between my office in the city and my home office in Nassau County when it's my day to watch the kids. PLEASE KEEP YOUR COVER LETTER to 25 WORDS or LESS because I want to see that you can write with simplicity and economy. THANK YOU.
Location: NYC/LI
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $10/hr
PostingID: 2736480643
My response:
So, you're a "lazy, out of work television writer." Why would one want to assist you? I'm curious about that.
You couldn't afford to hire me since I'm a licensed attorney & made the rate you're offering when I was a college student. My most recent temp job also paid me significantly more than your rate.
I'm also a business owner & started as the CEO's Exec Asst at my company; if you've announced you're lazy & out of work, how would one know the checks you give will be any good? I will give you credit for at least being honest in not having your shit together (unlike so many other Craig's List ad posters); I only wish others used that same courtesy so those seeking day jobs could be spared the BS.
And this, because it deals with indie film & I actually did it at one time, REALLY pissed me off:
Indie Filmmakers' Assistant
Date: 2011-12-25, 9:18PM EST
Reply to: gigs-k2sfx-2768803825@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Looking for a good-looking model or actor to be an assistant at the office 1 or 2 days a week
Please submit headshot with your reply.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2768803825
Here's what I wrote:
Hey, asshole! Thanks for making ALL indie filmmakers look like pornographers. I can tell you don't have an in-house lawyer b/c none of them would EVER allow you to post such an obvious ad that announces employment discrimination & potential sexual harassment.
Haven't you ever heard of a prostitute??? Surely, Long Island has some strip clubs or personals areas where you could find one instead of exploiting some pretty young thing who actually WANTS to work in this industry. I can also tell you aren't legit if you're using the Talent Gigs section of Craig's List as your personal dating website & this guise of a "job". Professionals only want people qualified to do the job, not window dressing or airheads who think they should coast by on looks & develop ZERO aptitude for ANYTHING ELSE.
There ARE female filmmakers out there & women involved in indie film who didn't slut it up to get there (many of whom are personal friends). If you display this blatant sexism in your professional life, I guarantee one of them will kick you in the balls sooner or later when you inevitably offend them or their sensibilities.
Yes, it's true!! Women in indie film don't take shit from sexist scumbags & I could totally see one kicking a guy in the balls for offending her. If one did, she'd end up becoming decoration instead of a real team player. I'd probably do much worse to you if you offend my sensibilities but I'm harder to offend & you'll know when you've done it.
As one of my exes once said, prettier women are more likely to be carrying weapons & knowing how to take care of themselves b/c they've had to deal with more harassment. Sound logic, huh? These morons should probably consider that. I have seen what happens to a guy when a woman hits him in the balls & it's not pretty (no, I didn't do it; I saw someone else do it).
Now, some illustration of why unpaid extra work is a waste of time if you're not a friend of the director or a producer:
Horror Film Casting- (Long Island)
Date: 2011-11-19, 1:43PM EST
Reply to: gigs-jsaew-2710909368@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Serious people who want to act only! Known Stars will be on set and we do not want anyone bothering them with autographs.
Large production company seeking actors and actresses to play lead roles on Monday Nov 21st at 12 noon. This is an incredible role with names attached to the movie. The location is within walking distance front he Wantagh L.I.R.R. We are seeking actors and actresses from 21-40. These roles will be speaking lines.
Be sure to send a HEADSHOT or you will NOT be considered for the role.
Shoot is 2 blocks from the railroad station
Send resume for condiseration!
Kaila martin
Casting Director CSI
Location: Long Island
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2710909368
This was posted in the Bronx section of Craig's List, not Long Island. That meant The Angry Redheaded Lawyer had to respond for the sake of taking someone down a few pegs.
Wow, you're seriously deluded!!!
If you want "Serious people who want to act only" and expect these same people working for NOTHING & in fact LOSING MONEY traveling to LONG ISLAND to not bother your "known stars" for autographs, I suggest you start paying folk. That's what professionals do & it's as clear as crystal that you're a fake.
Plus, any production that can afford a casting director can afford to pay background. At the very least, that production wouldn't be posting an ad in a borough of NYC & expecting professionals to travel ON THEIR DIME to Long Island i.e. the suburbs.
You get what you pay for.
And, nobody cares about "exposure." Ask your friends & people who like you, not strangers reading Craig's List.
EXTRAS, EXTRAS (NYC, LES)
Date: 2011-12-05, 12:05PM EST
Reply to: gigs-3d4fw-2737017774@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
If you want to be a part of an amazing experience and be seen in an international music video, then we want you!
We need men and women, in club attire with hair and makeup already done to come to the set at 9am on Sunday, Dec. 11th and stay as long as you can.
In exchange, you will have global exposure with the release of this music video.
Please contact with picture so we can provide more details and and answer any questions you may have.
Location: NYC, LES
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2737017774
Lastly, in case you thought attorneys, who are supposed to know more about the law & what it means than anyone else never post illegal & downright insulting ads you'll rethink that when you feast your eyes on these next few. Take a look:
Paralegal Intern (Financial District)
Date: 2010-11-24, 4:27PM EST
Reply to: job-jgshj-2078237569@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
About EEC
Eltman Eltman & Cooper, is the leading judgment enforcement law firm in the country. EEC has pioneered the location of enforceable assets on dormant judgment portfolios allowing clients to maximize returns on assets once thought of as uncollectible.
National judgment enforcement and creditor rights law firm seeking a paralegal intern.
The position offered is an unpaid internship.
The assumption is that candidates will receive credit from their school for this internship. Even if the candidate is not seeking school credit, this is an opportunity to gain invaluable practical experience.
We will train, but candidates should have good writing and speaking skills and be willing to handle everything from administrative tasks to substantive legal work.
Candidates should be available to begin their internship immediately.
Responsibilities:
As the sole paralegal intern working directly with the firm’s in-house counsel, you will be exposed to a number of key legal documents, issues and initiatives that are aiding the growth of the firm’s business.
You will have the opportunity to work on a variety of matters within the firm, such as:
• Coordinating with other firms and clients for preparation, signing and filing of vital legal documents
• Reviewing, drafting and/or filing legal documents
• Assisting with all administrative duties for in-house counsel
• Qualifications:
• Familiarity with legal documents
• Basic understanding of legal terms
• Ability to work independently and in groups
• Strong organizational skills
• Ability to multi-task
• Superior attention to detail
EEC is an equal opportunity employer.
Interested candidates should send resume with cover letter.
Compensation: Unpaid internship
This is an internship job
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2078237569
I've done paralegal work. No one needs an "internship" to do it. They may have paralegal schools & programs but I did those tasks without doing any of that. There's nothing to learn that one would have to "intern" to learn how to do; it's not brain surgery or even law practice. Can we say "attempt to exploit people for free labor???" Look, they even listed their name!
Consider it another business I'll never work with & will make sure to steer my colleagues far away from. They also have some interesting facts about them already if you do a Google search.
This one was posted recently & really made me mad:
Lawyer or Law Student Sought (Gramercy)
Date: 2011-12-26, 3:02PM EST
Reply to: gigs-qxq8z-2769573846@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
We're looking for someone to write our trademark application. We have a pro-Bono relationship with a top law firm in Manhattan. Your work will be reviewed by the law firm. Your compensation will be $10/hour and introduction to the law firm attorney who will review the application.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $10/hour plus networking.
PostingID: 2769573846
Here's what I wrote in response:
If you have a pro-bono relationship w/a "top law firm in Manhattan," then why are you exploiting some lawyer or law student? I made more than this an hour when I worked as a referral clerk in a mid-sized firm in Atlanta. The last time I made $10 an hour, I was a college student.
Unless the attorney reviewing the application is the managing partner of this firm & guaranteeing someone a job, this is nothing but exploitation (Did you know many attorneys are total assholes who would sell their own grandmothers for a nickel? They don't believe in the concept of networking or loyalty to others & I've read blogs/comments written by BigLaw folks). I say this as an entertainment law attorney myself (I just defy the attorney stereotypes though I also don't take BS). You're insulting professionals here.
Even document review attorneys earn $25 an hour or so at this point & all they're doing is clicking a screen!
You should probably figure out just what you're offering before posting ads. Oh, and lawyers charge about $100 an hour if not more. People like you make prostitution sound better & better.
This is all true about attorneys as a group, the rates charged & the like. If this is what law students have to look forward to, they probably should engage in prostitution. They could always try go-go dancing at this venue:
Earn 1000's Weekly / Bikini GO-GO Dancers Wanted For NYC Sports Bar (Midtown)
Date: 2011-03-16, 12:14AM EDT
Reply to: taxcutsnow09@aol.com [Errors when replying to ads?]
Earn Thousands Per Week as A GOGO Dancer, Bikini only in a NYC Sports Bar located in TIME SQUARE. Be Your own Boss and Set Your Own Hours
Contact us By email and Please send Pics. Exciting Oppurtunity to Work in a Upscale location
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2268011329
I haven't seen more of these in the Legal jobs section lately but I always find it funny & innovative of that proprietor when I do. That's a smart person who keeps up with the news.
Or, you could work for people who can barely spell:
HIREING ATTORNEYS --GREAT OPPORTUNITIES (Midtown)
Date: 2011-12-15, 3:46PM EST
Reply to: job-uqae7-2754978446@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
To be a practicing attorney is every JD or LLM student's dream . . . whether you are a US citizen or a permanent resident. Unfortunately, during the current recession, graduation day has become unemployment day. Without professional guidance and in need of training, law graduates can become underemployed or jobless, even in debt. Without H1B sponsorship or any other legal status, international law school graduates face an even tougher employment market no matter how many state bar admissions you have.
Our firm will start you on the great path to your respectable career.
Please send your cover letter and resume to： P.O BOX 20281, New York, NY 10001-994
Or Email.
Only motivated applicants with a commitment to stay and work in the US long-term are welcome.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2754978446
I decided to pass on sending in anything for this because just as an employer will knock an applicant out for spelling errors in your resume & cover letter, I think applicants should be knocking out employers for errors in their ads. I certainly do it, anyway.
I don't want to work for someone who demands me to be literate when they can't even do it themselves. That's like a parent who makes their kid eat brussel sprouts when they themselves wouldn't even eat them. Screw them! If you're going to impose high standards on others, you'd better be imposing them on yourself first.
As for more client arrogance:
Need an Attorney Writer - REVISED (New York City)
Date: 2011-08-10, 10:08AM EDT
Reply to: gigs-jfjpq-2539432954@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I need a licensed new york lawyer to register a corporation for me and prepare all the paperwork and serve as a registered agent of process. The lawyer must a PO BOX or physical address to receive processes if there are ever any. Newly licensed attorneys and senior lawyers welcome to apply. We are a small start up hence budget our current budget is limited. But there will be prospects of future business. $75 is intended for attorney fees only I will pay all the filling fees to the govt seperately
Location: New York City
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $75 for attorney fees
PostingID: 2539432954
Wow, you're going to pay a whopping $75 for all of this legal paperwork & demand the person to be your registered agent of process. How hard up are you as a start up to do this??? They need to be asking a friend.
Here's what I wrote in response:
Legal Zoom charges more than the $75 you propose to pay to an attorney for that kind of work. In fact, I know attorneys charge on average over $300 for this. $75 is a low hourly rate for even a BRAND NEW attorney (as in just got admitted to the bar yesterday). I've written business letters of 2-3 pages for $250.
Stop insulting attorneys with your pitiful $75 for hours & hours of work! It costs more than that to pay for ONE attorney CLE class (CLE classes are required in the state of NY for an attorney to keep a NY license) & on average, lawyers have to undertake hundreds of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS of NON-DISCHARGEABLE loan debt just to get licened.
You'd be wise to remember the saying "you get what you pay for."
It is NOT the attorney's problem that you're broke!!! We've got our own shit to pay for! Are YOU paying six figure student loan debts, many of which from private loan companies (who offer nothing but "fuck you, pay me" plans if you recall)? Unless or until you're doing that, don't talk to me about your poverty. No attorney wants to hear about that b/c we will top you. We want a fair (as in market) rate. Otherwise, you need to be asking an attorney friend/family member or making some new friends.
Hint: you will not make them by assuming the world owes you legal services & giving zero back.
This stuff is an insult & pisses me off. How likely do you think it is that I'm going to do anything to benefit you when you have insulted me? Hell will freeze over first. Stuff like that also discourages us from doing anyone a favor.
Finally, in this last installment of "What the Hell Was This Person Thinking?" is this ad. Someone apparently doesn't know the difference between a mentor & a teacher:
Mentor "Needed" Lip Balm (Financial District)
Date: 2011-12-26, 7:02PM EST
Reply to: gigs-kp2zq-2769922058@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Starting a Company seeking a mentor. What I am looking for.
Willing to Stay Primarily on My Agenda, Not Her/His Own
Open to Learning From ME, As Well As Teaching ME
Successful in Your Eyes
One Who Can Help Me Define My Dream and a Plan to Turn My Dream into Reality
One Who Believes in My Potential
A Teacher
Deeply Committed to Me
A Model for Me
Honest With Me
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: no pay
PostingID: 2769922058
Here's my response:
Some free tips for you:
1. Tell people what type of company you're trying to start. Don't you want a mentor that knows something about what you're trying to do??? Starting a law firm isn't the same as a film company and starting a non-profit isn't the same as starting a restaurant. Different rules, different experiences, different obstacles. Talk to someone w/some authority on the matter.
2. Craig's List isn't the forum to find a mentor. You should be trying LinkedIn. Maybe join some groups & talk to people doing what you want to do. Perhaps there's a business association or networking group for what you want to do that could also be helpful.
3. You don't tell a mentor that they have to learn from YOU or that they have to be focused ONLY on YOU. Mentorship is a TWO WAY street!!!!!!!! Plus, who the Hell are YOU that someone w/the expertise you want for some business you've yet to identify should be learning ANYTHING from you? What have YOU done? What struggles have YOU faced? What adversity did you ever overcome? Did you earn your way in life or did Mommy & Daddy hand it to you?
I guarantee if you tell someone that without saying WHY anyone could learn from you, you'll be seen as just another arrogant Millenial & the person will be thinking the same things. People have their own shit to do as well & if you don't want to deal with that, you need to seek an actual teacher or career counselor. See #4.
4. On that note, teachers & advisers are paid MONEY for their expertise. If you want that type of one-sided relationship, you need to be offering some pay. People with skills decide if they want to volunteer their services, not the people who seek those services.
Lastly, Craig's List isn't your personal networking group & no one cares about your personal growth. You want sympathy, pay for it. Later.
I certainly have a negative impression of this person after reading this ad. Wouldn't you?
That concludes this installment. I bet you can still find some of these ads on Craig's List if you want to have some fun yourself laughing at the base stupidity, law violations & warped thinking that exist here. If you get a response, let me know what justifications these pinheads offer up.
Wednesday, December 21, 2011
More Illustration of My "Typical Lawyer" Hate
I came across this blog & read this entry. I had to respond. It compelled me. It was screaming "You've got to respond to this attitude that you MUST give to charity, political campaigns & the like as an attorney."
If you've read this blog, you know my basic viewpoints on doing anything: if I don't want to contribute (or it would harm my ability to survive in my home), I'm not doing it!!! You also know my viewpoints on politics & giving money to charity or even helping anyone out in a fundraiser. Essentially, you'd better be doing something for me (i.e. someone who agrees with things I support & isn't worried about what everyone thinks of him/her; getting me or mine a job in the campaign or being a friend is also a factor), involved with an arts, animal rights or other organization that doesn't use 90% of my contribution for things other than the cause you told me about OR selling yummy chocolate, Girl Scout cookies or a punch/good discount card to a local restaurant or business that I love. Otherwise, you've got a better chance getting money from the town Scrooge.
I like to think this blog serves as a warning for the easily offended or status obsessed freaks who might want to know me. If you fit those categories, guess what? I don't WANT to know who you are. I've already concluded that you are at best a sheltered crybaby & at worst an immature asshole. Most people don't have time for either type, me included. I certainly don't want to represent anyone like that as a client. I choose not to have children so I certainly don't want to be responsible for any adult who wishes to behave like one. I would end up smacking the person if not doing worse.
Know how you don't release tigers out in a populated residential area to roam free? Same deal when it comes to enforcers like myself.
As I read this entry I though, "Jesus, haven't you heard of the word 'no?!?'" It's not a hard word to master. If I don't have a use for something or I think you have repugnant views, I'm not supporting you. If you are my friend, you already know the basics on this. If you aren't, I don't care what you think. A little assertiveness never hurt anyone.
The ultimate thing that bothered me though, was the whole status race. I don't know that I've ever directly expressed it here but I REALLY FUCKING HATE the whole status thing. I have personal, firsthand reasons to hate it.
The main reason I despise it is because I grew up a lower middle class kid in a school where all the smart kids were middle class or better. The ones I knew in 7th grade were particularly bad. They were nothing but label seeking little bitches who would base people's worth on what brands they wore. Of course, because my parents didn't have the money to buy fancy mall clothes, I got made fun of. I also had people get critical over what color socks I wore.
One day, this girl who was a bit of a bully made a remark about my socks & I said maybe she ought to be focusing on her own wardrobe instead of mine. This was in 8th grade, after I made new friends who based their friendship on your personality, not your parents' net worth. I got very belligerent over the whole clothing thing & once I showed I wasn't taking shit (plus my friends told one of the bigger bullies they'd kick her ass for bothering me), people backed down. I also got some of these little clique bitches in trouble because the teachers saw them disrupting class by bothering me. Once that happened, I had a much more tolerable school experience.
At first I wanted to get the status symbols to get that respect & acceptance but later learned it didn't matter because everyone deserves basic human dignity. You're not a better person because you have a Gucci item or Juicy Couture or whatever. Trash is still trash, no matter how you dress it (and I'm speaking of people who ACT trashy not those working in the adult industry necessarily).
When I see an attorney expressing the view this person mentions, I form my own very negative impressions. I'm tempted to ask when they're going to grow up since that's a 12 year old's mentality. I also admit freely to being an eccentric & am quite proud of it. I also know those mental midgets are nothing but haters who will never amount to anything because they spend too much time worrying about everyone else instead of focusing on their own wardrobes. I'd bet you money they either have no families or treat them like shit.
Many people I've met who had money didn't waste it on status symbols to look cool. I saw plenty of people in Atlanta who had money & didn't drive luxury cars. They bought for quality & weren't trying to become targets for thieves or angry, displaced occupiers. Plus, I could take down little princess types in a heartbeat with all my real life experiences. Doing it to people this blog author's trying to impress would not only be my pleasure but a public service.
Again, I don't want to know or deal with someone who's got a 12 year old's mentality or is such a PC obsessed crybaby, they should move to their own island or live alone in a mountain cabin in the wilderness so nothing will offend them. Would you?
If you've read this blog, you know my basic viewpoints on doing anything: if I don't want to contribute (or it would harm my ability to survive in my home), I'm not doing it!!! You also know my viewpoints on politics & giving money to charity or even helping anyone out in a fundraiser. Essentially, you'd better be doing something for me (i.e. someone who agrees with things I support & isn't worried about what everyone thinks of him/her; getting me or mine a job in the campaign or being a friend is also a factor), involved with an arts, animal rights or other organization that doesn't use 90% of my contribution for things other than the cause you told me about OR selling yummy chocolate, Girl Scout cookies or a punch/good discount card to a local restaurant or business that I love. Otherwise, you've got a better chance getting money from the town Scrooge.
I like to think this blog serves as a warning for the easily offended or status obsessed freaks who might want to know me. If you fit those categories, guess what? I don't WANT to know who you are. I've already concluded that you are at best a sheltered crybaby & at worst an immature asshole. Most people don't have time for either type, me included. I certainly don't want to represent anyone like that as a client. I choose not to have children so I certainly don't want to be responsible for any adult who wishes to behave like one. I would end up smacking the person if not doing worse.
Know how you don't release tigers out in a populated residential area to roam free? Same deal when it comes to enforcers like myself.
As I read this entry I though, "Jesus, haven't you heard of the word 'no?!?'" It's not a hard word to master. If I don't have a use for something or I think you have repugnant views, I'm not supporting you. If you are my friend, you already know the basics on this. If you aren't, I don't care what you think. A little assertiveness never hurt anyone.
The ultimate thing that bothered me though, was the whole status race. I don't know that I've ever directly expressed it here but I REALLY FUCKING HATE the whole status thing. I have personal, firsthand reasons to hate it.
The main reason I despise it is because I grew up a lower middle class kid in a school where all the smart kids were middle class or better. The ones I knew in 7th grade were particularly bad. They were nothing but label seeking little bitches who would base people's worth on what brands they wore. Of course, because my parents didn't have the money to buy fancy mall clothes, I got made fun of. I also had people get critical over what color socks I wore.
One day, this girl who was a bit of a bully made a remark about my socks & I said maybe she ought to be focusing on her own wardrobe instead of mine. This was in 8th grade, after I made new friends who based their friendship on your personality, not your parents' net worth. I got very belligerent over the whole clothing thing & once I showed I wasn't taking shit (plus my friends told one of the bigger bullies they'd kick her ass for bothering me), people backed down. I also got some of these little clique bitches in trouble because the teachers saw them disrupting class by bothering me. Once that happened, I had a much more tolerable school experience.
At first I wanted to get the status symbols to get that respect & acceptance but later learned it didn't matter because everyone deserves basic human dignity. You're not a better person because you have a Gucci item or Juicy Couture or whatever. Trash is still trash, no matter how you dress it (and I'm speaking of people who ACT trashy not those working in the adult industry necessarily).
When I see an attorney expressing the view this person mentions, I form my own very negative impressions. I'm tempted to ask when they're going to grow up since that's a 12 year old's mentality. I also admit freely to being an eccentric & am quite proud of it. I also know those mental midgets are nothing but haters who will never amount to anything because they spend too much time worrying about everyone else instead of focusing on their own wardrobes. I'd bet you money they either have no families or treat them like shit.
Many people I've met who had money didn't waste it on status symbols to look cool. I saw plenty of people in Atlanta who had money & didn't drive luxury cars. They bought for quality & weren't trying to become targets for thieves or angry, displaced occupiers. Plus, I could take down little princess types in a heartbeat with all my real life experiences. Doing it to people this blog author's trying to impress would not only be my pleasure but a public service.
Again, I don't want to know or deal with someone who's got a 12 year old's mentality or is such a PC obsessed crybaby, they should move to their own island or live alone in a mountain cabin in the wilderness so nothing will offend them. Would you?
Thursday, August 11, 2011
$75 for Legal Services?!?!?! What Drugs Are You Taking?
There are some very good reasons to hate lawyers. I don't like the ones who try to take over my work when I ask a simple question or who tell people to never have any dreams while complaining about how much they hate their lives. I also hate the arrogant jerks & those are in bountiful supply in the legal field. Thankfully, that's not every single attorney or I'd never do squat for the field.
I saw this ad yesterday on Craig's List and it epitomizes exactly why many attorneys hate particular clients or won't offer freebies:
Need an Attorney Writer - REVISED (New York City)
Date: 2011-08-10, 10:08AM EDT
Reply to: gigs-jfjpq-2539432954@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I need a licensed new york lawyer to register a corporation for me and prepare all the paperwork and serve as a registered agent of process. The lawyer must a PO BOX or physical address to receive processes if there are ever any. Newly licensed attorneys and senior lawyers welcome to apply. We are a small start up hence budget our current budget is limited. But there will be prospects of future business. $75 is intended for attorney fees only I will pay all the filling fees to the govt seperately
Location: New York City
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $75 for attorney fees
PostingID: 2539432954
This was just so appalling, I had to respond. Here's what I wrote:
Legal Zoom charges more than the $75 you propose to pay to an attorney for that kind of work. In fact, I know attorneys charge on average over $300 for this. $75 is a low hourly rate for even a BRAND NEW attorney (as in just got admitted to the bar yesterday). I've written business letters of 2-3 pages for $250.
Stop insulting attorneys with your pitiful $75 for hours & hours of work! It costs more than that to pay for ONE attorney CLE class (CLE classes are required in the state of NY for an attorney to keep a NY license) & on average, lawyers have to undertake hundreds of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS of NON-DISCHARGEABLE loan debt just to get licensed.
You'd be wise to remember the saying "you get what you pay for."
Signed, a licensed NY attorney who wouldn't set up a relative's corporation for $75
The subject heading was "What You NEED is a Clue." By the way, completely true that Legal Zoom would charge more than $75 to do this sort of thing in NY.
I have no idea who some of the people who post ads on Craig's List think they are. Does this person honestly think any attorney worth their salt would take this? And with that kind of regard for legal services, do you really think an attorney is going to give a damn about you or go above & beyond?
Shit like this is why I no longer go above & beyond unless I know the client will appreciate it & won't even consider representing anyone who can't be vetted in some way by someone I know. You bet I wouldn't set up a relative's corporation for $75, especially with the headache relatives will give you in general.
If you want a volunteer lawyer, try going through a legal clinic or volunteer group. Lawyers will happily volunteer time there. Case in point: I'm doing this in a couple months for a cause & demographic I care about + have some knowledge on. Doing that benefits lawyers since they get cache in their circle, are eligible for CLE credit & will not have to pay out of pocket for anything more than transportation. They don't have to get malpractice insurance, set up an office, pay for a PO Box or incur the kinds of costs this simpleton & his/her ilk want to impose on lawyers.
The amount doesn't bother me nearly as much as the total lack of respect for what lawyers have to go through & the realities of working in the field. Low amounts like this say to attorneys "I have no respect for your trade or expertise. I don't respect you as a professional either."
Hating attorneys because they do not want to be low-balled or perform freebies on command is not justified. These people should make these requests to their friends & inner circle instead of posting them as ads on Craig's List. I've said as much to posters asking for egregious and appalling things, oftentimes things I'd expect from a networking group of peers where the affiliation is based on trust, an interest in helping others & so forth.
If you don't want ridicule, save these kinds of favors for your personal contacts & don't waste the time of people seeking legitimate PAYING employment.
One more thing. If you want me to send you personal information, you'll have to identify yourself first. There are too many scam artists and people trying to use lawyers to perpetuate illegal activity (read some of my prior entries). There are even bored, unemployed lawyers wasting good money to post ridiculous job ads, collect resumes & ridicule responders to the stupid ad. Such an incident was documented in "Above the Law" (some legal tabloid blog a bunch of big shot lawyers read, for those who don't know or like me, could really care less about).
Maybe they ought to be working as sociologists or psychologists instead since they could classify that as legitimate research vs. time wasting BS that diminishes attorneys & Craig's List even further (if you can believe that's possible). Perhaps they could get grants to fund that research so they'd end up coming out better than just throwing money away on stupidity.
Until you get on board to wipe out law school loan debt or change the bankruptcy law so we're not all living with a six-figure burden until we're all dead, don't whine to me about how you can't get a lawyer to do hours of legal work for $75.
I saw this ad yesterday on Craig's List and it epitomizes exactly why many attorneys hate particular clients or won't offer freebies:
Need an Attorney Writer - REVISED (New York City)
Date: 2011-08-10, 10:08AM EDT
Reply to: gigs-jfjpq-2539432954@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
I need a licensed new york lawyer to register a corporation for me and prepare all the paperwork and serve as a registered agent of process. The lawyer must a PO BOX or physical address to receive processes if there are ever any. Newly licensed attorneys and senior lawyers welcome to apply. We are a small start up hence budget our current budget is limited. But there will be prospects of future business. $75 is intended for attorney fees only I will pay all the filling fees to the govt seperately
Location: New York City
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: $75 for attorney fees
PostingID: 2539432954
This was just so appalling, I had to respond. Here's what I wrote:
Legal Zoom charges more than the $75 you propose to pay to an attorney for that kind of work. In fact, I know attorneys charge on average over $300 for this. $75 is a low hourly rate for even a BRAND NEW attorney (as in just got admitted to the bar yesterday). I've written business letters of 2-3 pages for $250.
Stop insulting attorneys with your pitiful $75 for hours & hours of work! It costs more than that to pay for ONE attorney CLE class (CLE classes are required in the state of NY for an attorney to keep a NY license) & on average, lawyers have to undertake hundreds of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS of NON-DISCHARGEABLE loan debt just to get licensed.
You'd be wise to remember the saying "you get what you pay for."
Signed, a licensed NY attorney who wouldn't set up a relative's corporation for $75
The subject heading was "What You NEED is a Clue." By the way, completely true that Legal Zoom would charge more than $75 to do this sort of thing in NY.
I have no idea who some of the people who post ads on Craig's List think they are. Does this person honestly think any attorney worth their salt would take this? And with that kind of regard for legal services, do you really think an attorney is going to give a damn about you or go above & beyond?
Shit like this is why I no longer go above & beyond unless I know the client will appreciate it & won't even consider representing anyone who can't be vetted in some way by someone I know. You bet I wouldn't set up a relative's corporation for $75, especially with the headache relatives will give you in general.
If you want a volunteer lawyer, try going through a legal clinic or volunteer group. Lawyers will happily volunteer time there. Case in point: I'm doing this in a couple months for a cause & demographic I care about + have some knowledge on. Doing that benefits lawyers since they get cache in their circle, are eligible for CLE credit & will not have to pay out of pocket for anything more than transportation. They don't have to get malpractice insurance, set up an office, pay for a PO Box or incur the kinds of costs this simpleton & his/her ilk want to impose on lawyers.
The amount doesn't bother me nearly as much as the total lack of respect for what lawyers have to go through & the realities of working in the field. Low amounts like this say to attorneys "I have no respect for your trade or expertise. I don't respect you as a professional either."
Hating attorneys because they do not want to be low-balled or perform freebies on command is not justified. These people should make these requests to their friends & inner circle instead of posting them as ads on Craig's List. I've said as much to posters asking for egregious and appalling things, oftentimes things I'd expect from a networking group of peers where the affiliation is based on trust, an interest in helping others & so forth.
If you don't want ridicule, save these kinds of favors for your personal contacts & don't waste the time of people seeking legitimate PAYING employment.
One more thing. If you want me to send you personal information, you'll have to identify yourself first. There are too many scam artists and people trying to use lawyers to perpetuate illegal activity (read some of my prior entries). There are even bored, unemployed lawyers wasting good money to post ridiculous job ads, collect resumes & ridicule responders to the stupid ad. Such an incident was documented in "Above the Law" (some legal tabloid blog a bunch of big shot lawyers read, for those who don't know or like me, could really care less about).
Maybe they ought to be working as sociologists or psychologists instead since they could classify that as legitimate research vs. time wasting BS that diminishes attorneys & Craig's List even further (if you can believe that's possible). Perhaps they could get grants to fund that research so they'd end up coming out better than just throwing money away on stupidity.
Until you get on board to wipe out law school loan debt or change the bankruptcy law so we're not all living with a six-figure burden until we're all dead, don't whine to me about how you can't get a lawyer to do hours of legal work for $75.
Wednesday, May 4, 2011
A Deluded Person & Thinking With Your Brain
So I saw this Craig's List ad today:
Calling all redheads or those desiring to be a red head (SoHo)
Date: 2011-05-04, 3:14PM EDT
Reply to: gigs-c8atu-2362468803@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Model needed for Wella Trend Vision competition. Receive Free cut, color, style and pictures. I am looking for a model with beautiful hair. Red heads are preferred or someone desiring to be a red color tone.
All services will be performed at Arrojo Cosmetology.
All services will be free.
Services will be performed May 10, 17, 24 from 5:30 pm-9:30 pm at ARROJO Cosmetology. We will designate one day to the haircut, one to color, and one for styling and photographs.
ARROJO cosmetology is attached to the world-renowned ARROJO studio and is owned and operated by celebrity hair stylist Nick Arrojo.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: Gift Certificate
PostingID: 2362468803
At first, I thought "Hey, I'M a redhead. Maybe I should respond."
Then I re-read it & came to the conclusion that someone has never been a natural redhead.
For you see, rule #1 of being a natural redhead is: unless you have no regard for your life & well-being, you never, ever, EVER under any circumstances dye your hair, even a little bit.
Why? First off, if you dye it (as conventional wisdom goes), you may never get the same color again. Apparently, it may not regrow the same color as it once was. Red hair is a tricky thing, you know?
Second, people have literally said to me "I'll kill you if you ever dye your hair." I get compliments on it quite often & some of these people said it with complete seriousness & sincerity in their voices. Probably not a smart idea for me to go risking becoming a marked woman by letting anyone lay a finger on my hair.
Can't tell you how many times hairstylists have complimented my hair color when I've gone to get trims. It's sort of how I know they're legit. I'm sure even if I wanted to dye this mess, most hairstylists would flat out refuse or at least try really hard to talk me out of it.
Aside from the color issue, cutting it more than slightly is totally out for some good reasons:
1. Husband wrath - like most men, my husband prefers long hair. Getting a trim is like fighting World War III; I might get locked out of my house if I come home with super short hair.
Now I've considered getting it short in the past but the shortest I've ever had it was collar length & my husband claims long hair works better for me.
2. Entertainment work - if you change your hair dramatically, you have to get new headshots & update your pictures. The look could also hurt me in doing extra work or in my future projects. Aside from not wanting to spend money on all that, my hair's kind of become my trademark so there's no reason to tamper with it. It's not like I'll get it to my waist, you know? Believe me, I wished it would go that long as a child & it never happened.
3. It wouldn't make me look older or "more mature"; I'd just look like I was trying to be Molly Ringwald in her famous 80s movies. People already take me seriously as it is because of my personality, intelligence, what have you. Uglifying myself would do me no favors in my business.
On thinking with your brain: I'm pretty sure there's a political agenda going on with this most recent news of Osama Bin Laden's demise. I just don't trust government with all the shadiness that has happened, the timing of this little factoid and certain elements that any thinking person can spot in a second.
First off, you've just taken away from those who say the US government is ineffective. You've also guaranteed Obama a second term where he was becoming pretty hated in more recent times. Oh, and you've taken some fire away from the Tea Party & those seeking rebellion, "changes", etc.
Second, I don't believe everything the media tells me. I make my own decisions based on what I see, hear, observe, etc. Some tabloid celebs would probably love dealing with me since I'll at least base my treatment of them on their behavior toward me & my industry colleagues, not walk in with pre-conceived notions based on "Star," The National Enquirer," etc. I also remember things.
Speaking of remembering things, a good way to conduct your own social experiments and truly make people humble is to do jobs where some people have an elitism about it. One such job is calling attorneys without mentioning you happen to be one. I'm doing that for a short-term day job for non-legal matters.
Just like with extra work, it's a bit of an "Undercover Boss" opportunity. Only this time, I can note who was an asshole & make damn sure no one I know deals with them or their firm if they would get any piece of the action. I also don't work underneath in the hierarchy; I'm on a parallel track in relation to other attorneys. I don't have to care what anyone in the legal field thinks of me & generally speaking, I don't. Honestly, I'm shocked when an attorney is nice to me with all the venom you hear about them & some of the experiences I've had.
Today, I had a foolish law partner hang up on me in the course of my work. What did I do in response?
Unlike with individual people on a set, most law firms have websites. Oh, and attorneys are usually easy enough to find online.
So I found this jerk's attorney profile, saved it and noted it as someone I'd never deal with. If the name comes up, you bet I'll be telling others. A guy who's a prick to me in that context would truly be an ass to clients & clearly doesn't have respect for those he doesn't deem "good enough" for it.
I'd bet a million dollars this guy wouldn't have dared try that if he knew about my position in the world, especially if he knew all the facts. Being in entertainment makes me as much a suck-up target to attorneys as working in law makes me a suck-up target to people outside the legal field. I accept this & know it's reality from personal experience.
It also doesn't help that I already have some low opinions of attorneys. Sorry, but I don't get warm fuzzy feelings if I hear someone's an attorney. Unless someone I know likes you, you have some creative talent (meaning you appreciate creativity in others), or you work in a "fun" area like mine, part of me will wonder if you're going to be another jerkwad.
One of these days, I'm going to have opportunities to show some of these folks up. I can't wait!!
Calling all redheads or those desiring to be a red head (SoHo)
Date: 2011-05-04, 3:14PM EDT
Reply to: gigs-c8atu-2362468803@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Model needed for Wella Trend Vision competition. Receive Free cut, color, style and pictures. I am looking for a model with beautiful hair. Red heads are preferred or someone desiring to be a red color tone.
All services will be performed at Arrojo Cosmetology.
All services will be free.
Services will be performed May 10, 17, 24 from 5:30 pm-9:30 pm at ARROJO Cosmetology. We will designate one day to the haircut, one to color, and one for styling and photographs.
ARROJO cosmetology is attached to the world-renowned ARROJO studio and is owned and operated by celebrity hair stylist Nick Arrojo.
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Compensation: Gift Certificate
PostingID: 2362468803
At first, I thought "Hey, I'M a redhead. Maybe I should respond."
Then I re-read it & came to the conclusion that someone has never been a natural redhead.
For you see, rule #1 of being a natural redhead is: unless you have no regard for your life & well-being, you never, ever, EVER under any circumstances dye your hair, even a little bit.
Why? First off, if you dye it (as conventional wisdom goes), you may never get the same color again. Apparently, it may not regrow the same color as it once was. Red hair is a tricky thing, you know?
Second, people have literally said to me "I'll kill you if you ever dye your hair." I get compliments on it quite often & some of these people said it with complete seriousness & sincerity in their voices. Probably not a smart idea for me to go risking becoming a marked woman by letting anyone lay a finger on my hair.
Can't tell you how many times hairstylists have complimented my hair color when I've gone to get trims. It's sort of how I know they're legit. I'm sure even if I wanted to dye this mess, most hairstylists would flat out refuse or at least try really hard to talk me out of it.
Aside from the color issue, cutting it more than slightly is totally out for some good reasons:
1. Husband wrath - like most men, my husband prefers long hair. Getting a trim is like fighting World War III; I might get locked out of my house if I come home with super short hair.
Now I've considered getting it short in the past but the shortest I've ever had it was collar length & my husband claims long hair works better for me.
2. Entertainment work - if you change your hair dramatically, you have to get new headshots & update your pictures. The look could also hurt me in doing extra work or in my future projects. Aside from not wanting to spend money on all that, my hair's kind of become my trademark so there's no reason to tamper with it. It's not like I'll get it to my waist, you know? Believe me, I wished it would go that long as a child & it never happened.
3. It wouldn't make me look older or "more mature"; I'd just look like I was trying to be Molly Ringwald in her famous 80s movies. People already take me seriously as it is because of my personality, intelligence, what have you. Uglifying myself would do me no favors in my business.
On thinking with your brain: I'm pretty sure there's a political agenda going on with this most recent news of Osama Bin Laden's demise. I just don't trust government with all the shadiness that has happened, the timing of this little factoid and certain elements that any thinking person can spot in a second.
First off, you've just taken away from those who say the US government is ineffective. You've also guaranteed Obama a second term where he was becoming pretty hated in more recent times. Oh, and you've taken some fire away from the Tea Party & those seeking rebellion, "changes", etc.
Second, I don't believe everything the media tells me. I make my own decisions based on what I see, hear, observe, etc. Some tabloid celebs would probably love dealing with me since I'll at least base my treatment of them on their behavior toward me & my industry colleagues, not walk in with pre-conceived notions based on "Star," The National Enquirer," etc. I also remember things.
Speaking of remembering things, a good way to conduct your own social experiments and truly make people humble is to do jobs where some people have an elitism about it. One such job is calling attorneys without mentioning you happen to be one. I'm doing that for a short-term day job for non-legal matters.
Just like with extra work, it's a bit of an "Undercover Boss" opportunity. Only this time, I can note who was an asshole & make damn sure no one I know deals with them or their firm if they would get any piece of the action. I also don't work underneath in the hierarchy; I'm on a parallel track in relation to other attorneys. I don't have to care what anyone in the legal field thinks of me & generally speaking, I don't. Honestly, I'm shocked when an attorney is nice to me with all the venom you hear about them & some of the experiences I've had.
Today, I had a foolish law partner hang up on me in the course of my work. What did I do in response?
Unlike with individual people on a set, most law firms have websites. Oh, and attorneys are usually easy enough to find online.
So I found this jerk's attorney profile, saved it and noted it as someone I'd never deal with. If the name comes up, you bet I'll be telling others. A guy who's a prick to me in that context would truly be an ass to clients & clearly doesn't have respect for those he doesn't deem "good enough" for it.
I'd bet a million dollars this guy wouldn't have dared try that if he knew about my position in the world, especially if he knew all the facts. Being in entertainment makes me as much a suck-up target to attorneys as working in law makes me a suck-up target to people outside the legal field. I accept this & know it's reality from personal experience.
It also doesn't help that I already have some low opinions of attorneys. Sorry, but I don't get warm fuzzy feelings if I hear someone's an attorney. Unless someone I know likes you, you have some creative talent (meaning you appreciate creativity in others), or you work in a "fun" area like mine, part of me will wonder if you're going to be another jerkwad.
One of these days, I'm going to have opportunities to show some of these folks up. I can't wait!!
Thursday, April 21, 2011
Some Food for Thought & Yes, Attorneys CAN Be Pervs
This morning, I went to the dermatologist. Now I don't like reporting on my life exploits b/c usually they're not all that interesting. Plus, I really don't like stalking or stalkers whether they're mine or someone else's. Had some bad experiences with that & I'm not even famous.
Anyhow, the dermatologist asked me if I had experienced any recent stress. I talked a bit about my career experiences & she said that you can see the effects of stress on your skin as well as other places.
So in light of that, I have to mention a few articles I have bookmarked & prove that attorneys are indeed NOT exempt from being perverts. More on that shortly, though.
First off, this article on career lessons from the recession. They missed one important lesson: don't count on anyone else to do anything for you! Maybe that's also a good life lesson but it's been my experience that you shouldn't expect that you'll still have a job at someone else's company tomorrow or that a networking contact will help you. Be the steward of your own life & if you don't count on others, you'll appreciate them even more when they go out of their way for you. I never do things for others for any reason other than sheer kindness or to help, but I do know industry protocol in my field dictates that you put yourself at serious risk if you don't reciprocate, especially if it's someone who could really screw you now or later.
Second, there's no way in Hell I'd go back 10 years on a resume like this article advises. For one thing, I was in college 10 years ago. I had about 13 jobs when I was applying to the CT bar to become an attorney. I had to contact all my past employers so they could tell the bar examining committee about me. NY, mercifully, only asked for past legal employers (which was about 3).
If I included all my jobs from the past 10 years, you wouldn't have a resume. You would have a tome! At least I've never been fired from a job; I've just lost them due to lack of work, scam artistry & intolerable working conditions not caused by me. My rule of thumb is to only list legitimate jobs I've had since becoming an attorney & mentioning things I did before only if it was relevant to a specific job I'd applied for. A museum might care that I worked at the campus museum for 3 years on work study but no one in the legal field or entertainment world would base a hiring decision on that fact. For the record, that is an actual job I had in the past 10 years. No employer I know of has asked to see more than my past 3-4 jobs, certainly not more than 5 years.
Want the past 10 years from me? Prepare for a tome. You don't want to hear about my retail work considering I'm an attorney & I think it's highly irrelevant since my earlier job skills are largely integrated into things I've done more currently. I'm never returning to retail so how does it help you to hear that I did it if you're considering me for a job outside that industry?
Not to beat a dead horse here but I also saw this article & have some thoughts. If you've been reading this blog, you already know my views on the use of social media & how I think employers ought to be looking at it. That lawsuit I mentioned is likely a foreshadowing of what's to come when someone eventually sues on such matters.
Anyhow, I can sum up most people's career advice on such matters in one sentence: Have a bland, vanilla profile & never be controversial.
Thank God I get to speak my mind. How do the people working for Nazis & Stalinists handle it? Someone does something shitty to me, you're damn straight I'll say something. I have a public duty to warn people about that kind of thing, especially as an attorney. Also you know these same people will try buddying up to me later on & I'll need a record to make absolutely certain I know why they're on my blacklist.
Now, to explain attorneys being pervs. Saw this Craig's List ad today:
Hostesses (topless/nude) for small sports party (Upper West Side)
Date: 2011-04-21, 12:24PM EDT
Reply to: gigs-hwrvc-2338632406@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Hi we are a group of friends having a small party (10 -12 guys) next week that is sports related. We are looking for 2 hostesses to help serve drinks and food and generally add to the fun while we are glued to the tv. And since this is craigslist, we are hoping that the hostesses would be topless or nude. We are a bunch of otherwise boring lawyers so this isnt a gropefest. We are well-intentioned , respectful guys who just want to have a little fun. We have done this a few times in the past and its been a blast. This should be about 4 hours and we will guarantee $200 each for that period amd $50/hr each thereafter. And in the past the fellas have also tipped the women as well. This is a good opportunity to make some easy money and have food and drinks as well in a fun environment. If interested, please reply with a bit about yourself and a contact number and we'll call and arrange to meet so you beforehand so you can see this is a good situation.
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
* Compensation: $50/hr (4 hours guaranteed) plus tip
PostingID: 2338632406
I had to respond to this convoluted logic that attorneys are never capable of being filthy perverts. If you believe this convoluted logic, you don't actually know many attorneys or you're full of crap. Why do I say this?
For one thing, I've gotten hit on by attorneys at networking events. One actually invited me out for a drink after I was attending this job fair I didn't really need to attend since I'd already secured a legal client by the time it happened. I was just there for freebies like food, mints, etc. No attorney who's hit on me ever truly offended me since I don't offend easily but if one did, boy would he ever know it!
Let's also consider the experiences of female law firm associates and others who have been the victims of workplace sexual harassment & propositioning. You'd think they worked in the entertainment industry & were subject to the casting couch with some of the tales I've read. It's a huge reason I'd never bother working in some big law firm; if I wanted that kind of harassment, I could just become a stripper & make more money + have some work/life balance to boot.
Attorney doesn't always = upstanding person. There are some who take their ethical obligations seriously (I hope it's a large number) but there are those who don't. Some are despicable enough to where you'd be safer around a crazy homeless person who mutters. Read some stories about disbarred attorneys & law firm working environments. Even document review isn't immune from these scumbags so it's not just the attorneys pulling in $500K+ a year.
I also reminded the author of this ad that actress doesn't = slut. I think many actresses I know would be pissed if you called them that or thought they'd do something like this just b/c they are actresses.
Hope that's enough education to make you realize that being an attorney doesn't make you an upstanding, moral citizen who'd never harass, grope or bother a topless chick. If you were a scumbag before, being an attorney won't magically change you into an upstanding citizen.
Maybe this guy should just go to a strip club if he wants topless waitresses and nude women or hire a stripper that makes house calls. Just my take on it.
Anyhow, the dermatologist asked me if I had experienced any recent stress. I talked a bit about my career experiences & she said that you can see the effects of stress on your skin as well as other places.
So in light of that, I have to mention a few articles I have bookmarked & prove that attorneys are indeed NOT exempt from being perverts. More on that shortly, though.
First off, this article on career lessons from the recession. They missed one important lesson: don't count on anyone else to do anything for you! Maybe that's also a good life lesson but it's been my experience that you shouldn't expect that you'll still have a job at someone else's company tomorrow or that a networking contact will help you. Be the steward of your own life & if you don't count on others, you'll appreciate them even more when they go out of their way for you. I never do things for others for any reason other than sheer kindness or to help, but I do know industry protocol in my field dictates that you put yourself at serious risk if you don't reciprocate, especially if it's someone who could really screw you now or later.
Second, there's no way in Hell I'd go back 10 years on a resume like this article advises. For one thing, I was in college 10 years ago. I had about 13 jobs when I was applying to the CT bar to become an attorney. I had to contact all my past employers so they could tell the bar examining committee about me. NY, mercifully, only asked for past legal employers (which was about 3).
If I included all my jobs from the past 10 years, you wouldn't have a resume. You would have a tome! At least I've never been fired from a job; I've just lost them due to lack of work, scam artistry & intolerable working conditions not caused by me. My rule of thumb is to only list legitimate jobs I've had since becoming an attorney & mentioning things I did before only if it was relevant to a specific job I'd applied for. A museum might care that I worked at the campus museum for 3 years on work study but no one in the legal field or entertainment world would base a hiring decision on that fact. For the record, that is an actual job I had in the past 10 years. No employer I know of has asked to see more than my past 3-4 jobs, certainly not more than 5 years.
Want the past 10 years from me? Prepare for a tome. You don't want to hear about my retail work considering I'm an attorney & I think it's highly irrelevant since my earlier job skills are largely integrated into things I've done more currently. I'm never returning to retail so how does it help you to hear that I did it if you're considering me for a job outside that industry?
Not to beat a dead horse here but I also saw this article & have some thoughts. If you've been reading this blog, you already know my views on the use of social media & how I think employers ought to be looking at it. That lawsuit I mentioned is likely a foreshadowing of what's to come when someone eventually sues on such matters.
Anyhow, I can sum up most people's career advice on such matters in one sentence: Have a bland, vanilla profile & never be controversial.
Thank God I get to speak my mind. How do the people working for Nazis & Stalinists handle it? Someone does something shitty to me, you're damn straight I'll say something. I have a public duty to warn people about that kind of thing, especially as an attorney. Also you know these same people will try buddying up to me later on & I'll need a record to make absolutely certain I know why they're on my blacklist.
Now, to explain attorneys being pervs. Saw this Craig's List ad today:
Hostesses (topless/nude) for small sports party (Upper West Side)
Date: 2011-04-21, 12:24PM EDT
Reply to: gigs-hwrvc-2338632406@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Hi we are a group of friends having a small party (10 -12 guys) next week that is sports related. We are looking for 2 hostesses to help serve drinks and food and generally add to the fun while we are glued to the tv. And since this is craigslist, we are hoping that the hostesses would be topless or nude. We are a bunch of otherwise boring lawyers so this isnt a gropefest. We are well-intentioned , respectful guys who just want to have a little fun. We have done this a few times in the past and its been a blast. This should be about 4 hours and we will guarantee $200 each for that period amd $50/hr each thereafter. And in the past the fellas have also tipped the women as well. This is a good opportunity to make some easy money and have food and drinks as well in a fun environment. If interested, please reply with a bit about yourself and a contact number and we'll call and arrange to meet so you beforehand so you can see this is a good situation.
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
* Compensation: $50/hr (4 hours guaranteed) plus tip
PostingID: 2338632406
I had to respond to this convoluted logic that attorneys are never capable of being filthy perverts. If you believe this convoluted logic, you don't actually know many attorneys or you're full of crap. Why do I say this?
For one thing, I've gotten hit on by attorneys at networking events. One actually invited me out for a drink after I was attending this job fair I didn't really need to attend since I'd already secured a legal client by the time it happened. I was just there for freebies like food, mints, etc. No attorney who's hit on me ever truly offended me since I don't offend easily but if one did, boy would he ever know it!
Let's also consider the experiences of female law firm associates and others who have been the victims of workplace sexual harassment & propositioning. You'd think they worked in the entertainment industry & were subject to the casting couch with some of the tales I've read. It's a huge reason I'd never bother working in some big law firm; if I wanted that kind of harassment, I could just become a stripper & make more money + have some work/life balance to boot.
Attorney doesn't always = upstanding person. There are some who take their ethical obligations seriously (I hope it's a large number) but there are those who don't. Some are despicable enough to where you'd be safer around a crazy homeless person who mutters. Read some stories about disbarred attorneys & law firm working environments. Even document review isn't immune from these scumbags so it's not just the attorneys pulling in $500K+ a year.
I also reminded the author of this ad that actress doesn't = slut. I think many actresses I know would be pissed if you called them that or thought they'd do something like this just b/c they are actresses.
Hope that's enough education to make you realize that being an attorney doesn't make you an upstanding, moral citizen who'd never harass, grope or bother a topless chick. If you were a scumbag before, being an attorney won't magically change you into an upstanding citizen.
Maybe this guy should just go to a strip club if he wants topless waitresses and nude women or hire a stripper that makes house calls. Just my take on it.
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