Paying for a Date

I wasn't really sure if I'd addressed this one or not. I guess I didn't, even though it's something I feel very strongly about. Anyone who's dated me or talked to me about the subject knows where I stand on the issue: if you're a guy asking a woman out, pay for the damn date!

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Feminism & all that noise. I'm sure someone will dare to call me a hypocrite b/c I think guys should pay for dates unless the couple is living together/engaged/have combined their finances. Well, if you know some facts about me it's really not such a hypocritical stance. Here's why:

A) I was viewed as desirable by the time I was in college. Even today, guys STILL check me out. When something is desirable, it's worth a lot more right? Godiva chocolate is more expensive than Hershey's for a reason. Manhattan apartments are more pricey than apartments elsewhere. Why? Because lots of people want to live there.

So when you're talking about women who are prettier, smarter, whatever, you're going to have to work harder to get one. Women who are always getting asked out & are treated really well aren't going to put up with sub-standard nonsense. Most have some self-esteem.

B) Income divide. If the guy is out in the working world while the girl is a student or has no money, you're not going to win any points by expecting someone in dire straits to pay to go out w/you. In fact, she'll probably resent you for it.

C) People are flaky. Why invest in all this time & money if the relationship will just end in a month or so? It's especially stupid to do that if you know you won't be finding Mr. Right b/c of where you're living.

D) Liking YOU vs. your money. Why waste time w/someone who just wants to be around when you have money? Let's just eliminate the hangers-on right away. If they don't like you when you're poor, tell them to screw themselves if they bother to approach when you have $.

So, all of these factors applied to me in some way:

I had a lot of male attention from guys who NEVER expected me to pay for dates or even asked about it.

I later dated guys who were older than me + even most students didn't come from the dire straits I did.

My relationships were very short & I knew I wouldn't find Mr. Right in a city I had no plans to set up shop in; and

I was always hyper-ambitious & knew I'd be doing something great in life.

The difference b/t having this stance & being a gold-digger is I was never picky about venue. I'm still not; I never demanded to go to fancy places & if I did so, knowing my man couldn't afford it I would pay for it. He hates me paying for stuff, even after being married to me for 3 & 1/2 years. I'm also not a materialistic person though I have been exposed to finer things & do have some standards--I just view materials as a "take it or leave it" proposition.

Expecting me to pay, especially on a first date, would have ensured I'd never go out w/you again. My response is also "if a woman has 10 guys willing to take her out w/out making payment an issue, why should she pick your sorry ass that treats her like a buddy instead of a date?" I expect to pay when going out w/friends. There's no sense of impressing anyone when you expect the person to pay on a date.

I had this debate w/a male co-worker once & he said women should offer to pay, though decent men will refuse it. I never did this b/c I felt like it was an unnecessary dog & pony show; plus, what if the guy takes you up on it? You look stupid, you've wasted your money & you don't have any right to get mad about it. I wouldn't trap myself like that.

And for "the person who asks should pay" types, I never asked out anyone. That just wasn't in my personality & when people have openly told you to go away when you've simply approached them, you tend to be gun shy about that sort of thing. Plus, I simply never had to approach guys so I just saw it as a waste of time.

Oh, yes & I'm a wonderful cook. You can't really cook much in a college dorm but if I'd been given the chance, I'm sure I'd have done just fine.

Psychologically speaking, competition is a way of life. You're not going to win a decent woman's heart by being the biggest douchebag. This reminds me of a whole other rant about the stupid members of my gender who should be exiled for making women like me (especially those who are still single) look bad by association--look for it later.

2nd Post of the Day

Aren't you lucky?? You get to see 2 posts from me. The first I just did b/c it was a notable story & one I have an opinion on. Plus I'm performing in the NYC Bar Association's 12th Night show this Friday & I'll have rehearsals most of next week so I probably won't have time to write any entries. I got nominated to the Entertainment Committee by its President & if you know about this association, you know that getting onto a committee usually involves applying for open slots.

If you're going, you'll get to see me act & sing; also my first foray into musical theater & the first time I'm in a show where people are paying a lot of $ per ticket ($75, so I couldn't in good conscience invite most people I know since I wouldn't be going if I weren't in it).

Anyway, something I really feel strongly about is the "who pays for a 1st date" issue.

Here are some links to check. And another.

So where do I weigh in??? I'm in the "guy pays" category (though guys always invited me since I was too shy to ask anyone out--so glad I'm married). Many reasons for this but I think there are some major factors most people ignore in the argument.

1. The woman in question: How desirable is this woman? Are a lot of guys chasing after her? Is she particularly smart, pretty, entertaining, etc.? Guess what, buddy? If you want someone who is quality, you're going to have to step up & be better than the rest. Hairy women smelling of BO don't get to date the school hunk, do they? If WE'RE expected to maintain standards, then so are men.
Think of it like a business or a freelancer. If you're a profitable business w/a ton of paying clients, are you going to take jobs from some schmuck who costs you money to work with? If you're a famous actor commanding millions of dollars to work, are you going to work for free in a student film or for a total stranger? Answer to both is a resounding "Hell no!"
Then, why do some men expect a woman who gets asked out all the time by guys who NEVER make paying an issue to date THEM, when they are going to demand them to pay??

2. The financial positions of each person: When I was a college student, I dated a few guys who had their own jobs & were long out of school. One was 14 years older than me; another was 8 years. I also had NO ONE giving me allowances or anyone to rely upon but me in life. It's not only tacky but insulting to expect a college student to pay when the other person has a career & lives somewhere without roommates. Basic fairness. The 8 years older guy had the nerve to invite me someplace once & expected me to pay for it even though he KNEW I was trying to save $ + couldn't afford it.

3. Where you want this interaction to go: For me personally, I never did "the reach" since I'd have had no right to get mad if someone took me up on it. However, if you'd have wanted me to be more than your friend, having me pay would guarantee you'd never get past that. I just expect to pay w/friends but if a guy asked me out, I expected to be treated as a date and accorded the proper respect.

Is my Southern upbringing showing here? Maybe, but it was always an issue of numbers and economics with me. For me, paying is an admission that you're an ugly girl who doesn't deserve better from a guy. The women I knew who paid weren't with highly desirable men. When I dated, it also showed me that X guy would never be around in the bad times. Oh, and my husband NEVER made this an issue or gave me grief about it & he's a Northerner.

Lest anyone dare to label me a gold digger or ungrateful, I'm a hell of a cook, ALWAYS said thank you & never led anyone on or acted as a typical, bitchy girlfriend.